limx15

Linear 5-limit temperament with minor third as generator

Properties

Notes15
Period1200.0 ¢
JustNo
Source Mailing lists
Referencehttps://yahootuninggroupsultimatebackup.github.io/tuning/topicId_67653.html#67653
Thread2 scales
Tone (¢) Step (¢)
68 68
181 113
249 68
317 68
385 68
498 113
566 68
634 68
702 68
815 113
883 68
951 68
1019 68
1132 113
1200 68

Similar scales

FileNotesRotationMax diff (¢)
xen18-erlich-hanson-15 15 0 0.3
xen18-erlich-keemun-15 15 0 3.2
ramx15 15 0 4.1
MEANTONE-KILLER 15 7 19.1
Porcupine15Lesfip 15 7 19.6
porcuopt 15 4 19.6
xen18-erlich-blackwood-15 15 5 20.9
edo-15 15 0 21.1
thrush15 15 0 21.3
xen18-erlich-blacksmith-15 15 8 21.9

Parent scales

FileNotesMax diff (¢)
xen18-erlich-hanson-19 19 0.3
precata19 19 2.7
madagascar19 19 3.0
xen18-erlich-keemun-19 19 3.2
xen07-chalmers-ariel 19 4.1
xen07-chalmers-fokker-k 19 4.1
kleis 19 4.1
xen07-chalmers-mandelbaum-1 19 4.1
scj22_a 22 4.1
circ19 19 8.3

Child scales

FileNotesMax diff (¢)
hanson7 7 0.1
hanson11_tuning_95828_95886 11 0.1
xen18-erlich-hanson-11 11 0.3
xen18-erlich-hanson-07 7 0.3
xen15-chalmers-triadic-diamond-8192-6561 7 0.6
hanson11 11 0.6
xen15-chalmers-triadic-reversed-diamond-15-13 7 1.3
neutr_pent2 5 1.3
porchrome1 7 1.4
xen10-wilson-purvi-06b-04 7 1.4
Mailing list post
From: Petr Pařízek (2006-10-08)
Subject: It works ... But how is it called?

Hi there.

This is a method of 5-limit tempering which is totally different from
schismic or meantone tunings. I'm out of words. It just works. But is there
also a name for this kind of temperament?

! limx15.scl
!
Linear 5-limit temperament with minor third as generator
 15
!
 67.9700
 181.0525
 249.0225
 316.9925
 384.9625
 4/3
 566.0150
 633.9850
 3/2
 815.0375
 883.0075
 950.9775
 1018.9475
 1132.0300
 2/1

Petr
Full thread (14 messages)
From: Petr Pařízek (2006-10-08)
Subject: It works ... But how is it called?

Hi there.

This is a method of 5-limit tempering which is totally different from
schismic or meantone tunings. I'm out of words. It just works. But is there
also a name for this kind of temperament?

! limx15.scl
!
Linear 5-limit temperament with minor third as generator
 15
!
 67.9700
 181.0525
 249.0225
 316.9925
 384.9625
 4/3
 566.0150
 633.9850
 3/2
 815.0375
 883.0075
 950.9775
 1018.9475
 1132.0300
 2/1

Petr
From: Mohajeri Shahin (2006-10-08)
Subject: RE: [tuning] It works ... But how is it called?

Hi petr

You have intervallic pattern of  abaaabaaabaaaaba with :
a=67.97
b=113.082
11a+4b=1200
With 2 tetrachords as abaaab and baaaba which are enantiomorph of each other.

its rational version is :
  0:           1/1               0.000 unison, perfect prime
  1:         26/25             67.900
  2:         10/9             182.404 minor whole tone
  3:         15/13            247.741 tridecimal 5/4-tone
  4:          6/5             315.641 minor third
  5:          5/4             386.314 major third
  6:          4/3             498.045 perfect fourth
  7:         43/31            566.482
  8:         49/34            632.696
  9:          3/2             701.955 perfect fifth
 10:          8/5             813.686 minor sixth
 11:          5/3             884.359 major sixth, BP sixth
 12:         45/26            949.696
 13:          9/5            1017.596 just minor seventh, BP seventh
 14:         25/13           1132.100
 15:          2/1            1200.000 octave
|
  
  1:         26/25             67.900 
  2:        125/117           114.503 
  3:         27/26             65.337 tridecimal comma
  4:         26/25             67.900 
  5:         25/24             70.672 classic chromatic semitone, minor chroma
  6:         16/15            111.731 minor diatonic semitone
  7:        129/124            68.437 
  8:       1519/1462           66.214 
  9:         51/49             69.259 
 10:         16/15            111.731 minor diatonic semitone
 11:         25/24             70.672 classic chromatic semitone, minor chroma
 12:         27/26             65.337 tridecimal comma
 13:         26/25             67.900 
 14:        125/117           114.503 
 15:         26/25             67.900

If we take (b) as (114.503+111.731)/2= 113.117 which has 0.035 cent with your (b) and (a) as (1200-(4*113.117))/11=67.957 with deviation of -0.0125 cent with your (a) then we will have :

  0:          1/1               0.000 unison, perfect prime
  1:         67.957 cents      67.957
  2:        181.074 cents     181.074
  3:        249.031 cents     249.031
  4:        316.988 cents     316.988
  5:        384.945 cents     384.945
  6:        498.062 cents     498.062
  7:        566.019 cents     566.019
  8:        633.976 cents     633.976
  9:        701.933 cents     701.933
 10:        815.050 cents     815.050
 11:        883.007 cents     883.007
 12:        950.964 cents     950.964
 13:       1018.921 cents    1018.921
 14:       1132.038 cents    1132.038
 15:       1200.000 cents    1200.000

With maximum and minimum difference of 0.022 cent and -0.025 cent with your scale.


Shaahin Mohaajeri

Tombak Player & Researcher , Microtonal Composer

My web site 

My page in Harmonytalk

My tombak musics in Rhythmweb

My article in DrumDojo

My musics in Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :

- A composition based on a folk melody of Shiraz region, in shur-dastgah by Mohajeri Shahin 

- An experiment in Iranian homayun and chahargah modes by Mohajeri Shahin

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Petr Pa??zek
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 1:53 PM
To: Tuning List
Subject: [tuning] It works ... But how is it called?

Hi there.

This is a method of 5-limit tempering which is totally different from
schismic or meantone tunings. I'm out of words. It just works. But is there
also a name for this kind of temperament?

! limx15.scl
!
Linear 5-limit temperament with minor third as generator
 15
!
 67.9700
 181.0525
 249.0225
 316.9925
 384.9625
 4/3
 566.0150
 633.9850
 3/2
 815.0375
 883.0075
 950.9775
 1018.9475
 1132.0300
 2/1

Petr




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From: Petr Pařízek (2006-10-08)
Subject: Re: [tuning] It works ... But how is it called?

Hi Shaahin.

I'm surprised. How did you get your rational version? I also made one. But
it's completely different.

! ramx15.scl
!
Untempered version of the 5-limit minor third chain
 15
!
 25/24
 10/9
 125/108
 6/5
 5/4
 4/3
 25/18
 36/25
 3/2
 8/5
 5/3
 216/125
 9/5
 48/25
 2/1

Petr
From: Kraig Grady (2006-10-08)
Subject: Re: It works ... But how is it called?

this is the solution larry hanson did. based on a chain of 6/5 formings 
scales at 11,15,19, etc. ?
-- 
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
From: Petr Parízek (2006-10-08)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: It works ... But how is it called?

Hi Kraig.

This sounds interesting. I've never heard of Hanson's scales. Where is it
documented? Where can I find more?
Thanks.

Petr
From: Gene Ward Smith (2006-10-08)
Subject: Re: It works ... But how is it called?

--- In [email protected], Petr Par�zek  wrote:
>
> Hi Kraig.
> 
> This sounds interesting. I've never heard of Hanson's scales. Where
is it
> documented? Where can I find more?
> Thanks.

This is simply an example of MOS for a linear temperament. The 5-limit
temperament tempering out the kleisma, 15625/15552 has in fact been
given the name "hanson" by Paul Erlich. The generator is around 317
cents, a slightly sharp minor third. There are MOS of size 11, 15, 19,
34, 53, 87, 140 etc.
From: Herman Miller (2006-10-09)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: It works ... But how is it called?

Petr Par\ufffdzek wrote:
> Hi Kraig.
> 
> This sounds interesting. I've never heard of Hanson's scales. Where is it
> documented? Where can I find more?
> Thanks.

Larry Hanson's keyboard design is described here:

http://www.anaphoria.com/hanson.PDF

More detailed information about the chain of minor thirds scale 
(specifically an 11-note version of the scale, but with a brief mention 
of the 15-note scale) is on Dave Keenan's page:

http://users.bigpond.net.au/d.keenan/Music/ChainOfMinor3rds.htm
From: Mohajeri Shahin (2006-10-09)
Subject: RE: [tuning] It works ... But how is it called?

Hi petr

 

You can use farey rational approximation of scala . I used its default parameters for order and prime.

 

Shaahin Mohaajeri

Tombak Player & Researcher , Microtonal Composer

My web site <http://240edo.tripod.com/>  

My page in Harmonytalk <http://www.harmonytalk.com/id/908> 

My tombak musics in Rhythmweb <http://www.rhythmweb.com/gdg> 

My article in DrumDojo <http://www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/tonbak_acoustics.htm> 

My musics in Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :

- A composition based on a folk melody of Shiraz region, in shur-dastgah by Mohajeri Shahin <http://www.xenharmony.org/mp3/shaahin/shur.mp3>  

- An experiment in Iranian homayun and chahargah modes by Mohajeri Shahin <http://www.xenharmony.org/mp3/shaahin/homayun.mp3> 

________________________________

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Petr Pa??zek
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [tuning] It works ... But how is it called?

 

Hi Shaahin.

I'm surprised. How did you get your rational version? I also made one. But
it's completely different.

! ramx15.scl
!
Untempered version of the 5-limit minor third chain
15
!
25/24
10/9
125/108
6/5
5/4
4/3
25/18
36/25
3/2
8/5
5/3
216/125
9/5
48/25
2/1

Petr
From: Kraig Grady (2006-10-09)
Subject: Re: It works ... But how is it called?

here is another link to some more of hanson work and how the keyboard 
design works well for 72.
 Calling this temperment "Hanson" predates the tuning list
http://anaphoria.com/starr.PDF
-- 
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
From: Carl Lumma (2006-10-09)
Subject: Re: It works ... But how is it called?

> Calling this temperment "Hanson" predates the tuning list
> http://anaphoria.com/starr.PDF

This system used to be called "kleismic" on this list, before we knew
about Hanson's contribution, for those of you using the search feature.

Paul E., Dave K., Gene, Graham, myself, and probably Herman Miller
have made substantial original contributions to the theory of this
system, none of which are evident in this pdf.

-Carl
From: Gene Ward Smith (2006-10-09)
Subject: Re: It works ... But how is it called?

--- In [email protected], Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
> here is another link to some more of hanson work and how the keyboard 
> design works well for 72.

72 works well as a tuning for two different versions of the 7-limit
kleismic family. One has octave equivalent wedgie <<6 5 22...
("catakleismic" = 53&72) and the other, much less complex but also
much more out of whack in the 7-limit, <<6 5 3 ... ("keemun" = 19&34.)
The difference is that in keemun, we take three 6/5's of 316 2/3
cents, 19 steps of 72, to be the 7/4. This gives a 7/4 of 950 cents,
which is quite flat. Otherwise we can use 58 steps of 72, 966 2/3
cents. This is about two cents flat. 

It's also possible to use 72 with 59 steps as the 7/4, which tempers
out 50/49. If you want to do 50/49 planar and are much more concerned
to get good triads than good 7 harmonies, not a bad choice. More
on-topic, however, is to temper out both 50/49 and the kleisma. This
gives <<12 10 10 -12 -18 -5||, the 4&38 temperament, with a 6/5
generator and a half-octave period. This temperament does not seem to
have a name, but it appears to be usable, and 72 is a poptimal tuning
for it. Using all three versions of the 7/4 would certainly be
possible for the ambitious.
From: Kraig Grady (2006-10-10)
Subject: Re: It works ... But how is it called?

Larry Hanson came up with his tuning and keyboard design during WWII.
the article has been up since 2000
as has been the Horogram (#9) which labels this generator as Hanson

Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
From: Carl Lumma (2006-10-10)
Subject: Re: It works ... But how is it called?

> Larry Hanson came up with his tuning and keyboard design during WWII.
> the article has been up since 2000 as has been the Horogram (#9) which
> labels this generator as Hanson

Dave and I were posting here about this system in 1999, if not earlier.
As you can see by Gene's recent post, a lot has gone down since WWII.

-Carl
From: Kraig Grady (2006-10-11)
Subject: Re: It works ... But how is it called?

I am just aware of what Hanson did.
 tempering out this small interval.
 Just what else applies i have not seen
-- 
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Raw file

! limx15.scl
!
Linear 5-limit temperament with minor third as generator
 15
!
 67.9700
 181.0525
 249.0225
 316.9925
 384.9625
 4/3
 566.0150
 633.9850
 3/2
 815.0375
 883.0075
 950.9775
 1018.9475
 1132.0300
 2/1
!
! https://yahootuninggroupsultimatebackup.github.io/tuning/topicId_67653.html#67653
!
! [info]
! source = Mailing lists
! file = tuning/messages/yahoo_tuning_messages_api_raw_55190-71650.json
! topic_id = 67653
! msg_id = 67653