Full thread (21 messages)
From: genewardsmith (2012-01-12)
Subject: Porcupinish stuff
I've not concocted anything I'm very happy with starting from Porcupine[15] and lesfipping. I get stuff like this:
! pork15.scl
!
Porupine-related lesfip scale
15
!
90.75957
162.69064
256.58844
318.16312
423.99014
479.55828
585.38530
646.95998
740.85778
812.78885
903.54842
971.39229
1051.77421
1132.15613
1200.00000
From: Chris Vaisvil (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Porcupinish stuff
Are you saying it is not worth trying?
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 4:47 AM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...>wrote:
> **
>
>
> I've not concocted anything I'm very happy with starting from
> Porcupine[15] and lesfipping. I get stuff like this:
>
> ! pork15.scl
> !
> Porupine-related lesfip scale
> 15
> !
> 90.75957
> 162.69064
> 256.58844
> 318.16312
> 423.99014
> 479.55828
> 585.38530
> 646.95998
> 740.85778
> 812.78885
> 903.54842
> 971.39229
> 1051.77421
> 1132.15613
> 1200.00000
>
>
>
From: genewardsmith (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff
--- In [email protected], Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> Are you saying it is not worth trying?
It would be fine, I think.
From: Keenan Pepper (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff
--- In [email protected], "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> I've not concocted anything I'm very happy with starting from Porcupine[15] and lesfipping. I get stuff like this:
Are both 12/11 and 10/9 in your set of target consonances?
Is your acceptable error, e, less than 15 cents? (Knowing you, I'm sure it is.)
If so, then you could be judging each porcupine generator based on how close to 12/11 it is, or how close to 10/9 it is, but never both. But in porcupine, each generator is supposed to function as 12/11, 11/10, and 10/9, all at the same time. If some of them are being pulled toward 12/11 and some toward 10/9, then no wonder the chain is destabilizing into some really big generators and some small ones.
I'm wondering if your optimization process would leave alone a non-circulating chain of POTE porcupine generators, or whether it would make them unequal...
Keenan
From: genewardsmith (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff
--- In [email protected], "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:
> I'm wondering if your optimization process would leave alone a non-circulating chain of POTE porcupine generators, or whether it would make them unequal...
It never completely leaves a MOS alone, but sometimes it doesn't mess with it much.
From: genewardsmith (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff
--- In [email protected], "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@> wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering if your optimization process would leave alone a non-circulating chain of POTE porcupine generators, or whether it would make them unequal...
>
> It never completely leaves a MOS alone, but sometimes it doesn't mess with it much.
! porcupine15fip.scl
!
Lesfip version of Porcupine[15], 11-limit diamond target, 15 cent tolerance
15
!
100.98886
162.45590
262.89824
325.04535
387.19246
487.63480
549.10184
650.09070
711.24951
812.69999
875.28995
974.80075
1037.39071
1138.84119
1200.00000
From: Chris Vaisvil (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff
got it
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 1:32 PM, genewardsmith
<[email protected]>wrote:
> **
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm wondering if your optimization process would leave alone a
> non-circulating chain of POTE porcupine generators, or whether it would
> make them unequal...
> >
> > It never completely leaves a MOS alone, but sometimes it doesn't mess
> with it much.
>
> ! porcupine15fip.scl
> !
> Lesfip version of Porcupine[15], 11-limit diamond target, 15 cent tolerance
> 15
> !
> 100.98886
> 162.45590
> 262.89824
> 325.04535
> 387.19246
> 487.63480
> 549.10184
> 650.09070
> 711.24951
> 812.69999
> 875.28995
> 974.80075
> 1037.39071
> 1138.84119
> 1200.00000
>
>
>
From: Chris Vaisvil (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Porcupinish stuff
got it
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 4:47 AM, genewardsmith
<[email protected]>wrote:
> **
>
>
> I've not concocted anything I'm very happy with starting from
> Porcupine[15] and lesfipping. I get stuff like this:
>
> ! pork15.scl
> !
> Porupine-related lesfip scale
> 15
> !
> 90.75957
> 162.69064
> 256.58844
> 318.16312
> 423.99014
> 479.55828
> 585.38530
> 646.95998
> 740.85778
> 812.78885
> 903.54842
> 971.39229
> 1051.77421
> 1132.15613
> 1200.00000
>
>
>
From: genewardsmith (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff
--- In [email protected], Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> got it
That one's just porcupine. This one is more interesting, and might be a good one to try:
! valenporc15.scl
!
Valentine-porcupine circulating strictly proper 15-note lesfip scale, 11 limit diamond target, 13.8 to 15.5 cent tolerance
! approximately 555556655555555 in 77edo
15
!
79.99698
158.13771
233.53897
314.10167
389.50293
467.64365
547.64064
623.18179
701.41713
780.49908
873.82032
967.14156
1046.22350
1124.45885
1200.00000
From: Mike Battaglia (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 1:32 PM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
> >
> > It never completely leaves a MOS alone, but sometimes it doesn't mess with it much.
>
> ! porcupine15fip.scl
> !
> Lesfip version of Porcupine[15], 11-limit diamond target, 15 cent tolerance
> 15
> !
> 100.98886
> 162.45590
> 262.89824
> 325.04535
> 387.19246
> 487.63480
> 549.10184
> 650.09070
> 711.24951
> 812.69999
> 875.28995
> 974.80075
> 1037.39071
> 1138.84119
> 1200.00000
Whoa, this is pretty good! If anything, I'd say even well-temper it
more, as those wolf 3/2's are about 752 cents each. It'd be
interesting to see if we could get them into father range or so, like
13-EDO's 738 cent 3/2.
What did you use as a basis for porcupine, the POTE generator? What if
you run it again, but use a generator that's something between POTE
and 15-EDO? The arithmetic mean of the 160 cent 15-EDO generator and
the POTE 163.950 generator is 161.975, and so maybe that'd do the
trick.
-Mike
From: genewardsmith (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff
--- In [email protected], Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
> Whoa, this is pretty good! If anything, I'd say even well-temper it
> more, as those wolf 3/2's are about 752 cents each.
Is that so bad? 17/11 is 753.637 cents.
> What did you use as a basis for porcupine, the POTE generator? What if
> you run it again, but use a generator that's something between POTE
> and 15-EDO? The arithmetic mean of the 160 cent 15-EDO generator and
> the POTE 163.950 generator is 161.975, and so maybe that'd do the
> trick.
I can give it a try.
From: Mike Battaglia (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 8:29 PM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> > Whoa, this is pretty good! If anything, I'd say even well-temper it
> > more, as those wolf 3/2's are about 752 cents each.
>
> Is that so bad? 17/11 is 753.637 cents.
It depends on what you want. I'd like for everything to be usable as a
3/2, except some are harsher so you'd use them less. And if you
believe in 17-limit harmony, then 17/13 is 464.428 and about what I'm
shooting for for the worst tempered 4/3's.
> > What did you use as a basis for porcupine, the POTE generator? What if
> > you run it again, but use a generator that's something between POTE
> > and 15-EDO? The arithmetic mean of the 160 cent 15-EDO generator and
> > the POTE 163.950 generator is 161.975, and so maybe that'd do the
> > trick.
>
> I can give it a try.
Thanks for doing this.
-Mike
From: genewardsmith (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff
--- In [email protected], Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
> > I can give it a try.
>
> Thanks for doing this.
Here you go:
! porcufip15.scl
!
Prcupine[15] lesfip scale, 11-limit diamond, 15 cents tolerance
15
!
98.67069
161.69600
261.16244
323.51020
423.96853
486.50591
586.06832
648.60570
749.06403
811.41179
910.87823
973.90355
1072.57423
1136.28712
1200.00000
From: Mike Battaglia (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 10:09 PM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> > > I can give it a try.
> >
> > Thanks for doing this.
>
> Here you go:
>
> ! porcufip15.scl
> !
> Prcupine[15] lesfip scale, 11-limit diamond, 15 cents tolerance
> 15
> !
> 98.67069
> 161.69600
> 261.16244
> 323.51020
> 423.96853
> 486.50591
> 586.06832
> 648.60570
> 749.06403
> 811.41179
> 910.87823
> 973.90355
> 1072.57423
> 1136.28712
> 1200.00000
Wow, that's definitely getting there. Fifths are still a bit harsh though.
Any chance we could see 161 cents?
If you just run this with 160 cents, e.g. 15-EDO, should we expect to
see 15-EDO back out again?
-Mike
From: genewardsmith (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff
--- In [email protected], Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
> Any chance we could see 161 cents?
! porcuopt.scl
!
Porcupine[15] lesfip scale, 11-limit diamond, 15 cents tolerance
15
!
93.04859
162.01097
251.82183
323.43969
395.05755
484.86840
553.83079
646.87938
711.49922
811.40920
873.00679
973.87259
1035.47018
1135.38016
1200.00000
> If you just run this with 160 cents, e.g. 15-EDO, should we expect to see 15-EDO back out again?
If the equilibrium is stable, yes; otherwise round-off errors should produce a result, which would be a possible method for getting a result close to an edo in that case.
From: genewardsmith (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff
--- In [email protected], "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
> If the equilibrium is stable, yes; otherwise round-off errors should produce a result, which would be a possible method for getting a result close to an edo in that case.
>
I tried it, and it gave me 15edo back again, meaning it's stable.
From: Mike Battaglia (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 12:42 AM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> > Any chance we could see 161 cents?
>
> ! porcuopt.scl
> !
> Porcupine[15] lesfip scale, 11-limit diamond, 15 cents tolerance
> 15
> !
> 93.04859
> 162.01097
> 251.82183
> 323.43969
> 395.05755
> 484.86840
> 553.83079
> 646.87938
> 711.49922
> 811.40920
> 873.00679
> 973.87259
> 1035.47018
> 1135.38016
> 1200.00000
This one is great! I wonder what the best mode is? This one's pretty good
! /Applications/Scala.app/Contents/Resources/scala22/Porcupine15Lesfip.scl
!
asdljfkhlaksjdhfkasdgfaoiusdhfkejgflkjadshlfdkjhad
15
!
61.59759
161.50757
226.12741
319.17600
388.13838
477.94924
549.56710
621.18496
710.99581
779.95820
873.00679
937.62663
1037.53661
1099.13420
1200.00000
-Mike
From: Mike Battaglia (2012-01-14)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff
Hey Chris, any chance you could try this one?
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> ! /Applications/Scala.app/Contents/Resources/scala22/Porcupine15Lesfip.scl
> !
> asdljfkhlaksjdhfkasdgfaoiusdhfkejgflkjadshlfdkjhad
> 15
> !
> 61.59759
> 161.50757
> 226.12741
> 319.17600
> 388.13838
> 477.94924
> 549.56710
> 621.18496
> 710.99581
> 779.95820
> 873.00679
> 937.62663
> 1037.53661
> 1099.13420
> 1200.00000
>
> -Mike
There are two scales within this that are of interest: the MOS 2 1 2 2
2 2 2 and its modes, and the MOS 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 and its modes. Feel
free to use these or not to use these as much as you want.
I think this one might work really well.
-Mike
From: Chris Vaisvil (2012-01-14)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff
Sure, coming up.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hey Chris, any chance you could try this one?
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Mike Battaglia <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > !
> /Applications/Scala.app/Contents/Resources/scala22/Porcupine15Lesfip.scl
> > !
> > asdljfkhlaksjdhfkasdgfaoiusdhfkejgflkjadshlfdkjhad
> > 15
> > !
> > 61.59759
> > 161.50757
> > 226.12741
> > 319.17600
> > 388.13838
> > 477.94924
> > 549.56710
> > 621.18496
> > 710.99581
> > 779.95820
> > 873.00679
> > 937.62663
> > 1037.53661
> > 1099.13420
> > 1200.00000
> >
> > -Mike
>
> There are two scales within this that are of interest: the MOS 2 1 2 2
> 2 2 2 and its modes, and the MOS 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 and its modes. Feel
> free to use these or not to use these as much as you want.
>
> I think this one might work really well.
>
> -Mike
>
>
>
From: Chris Vaisvil (2012-01-14)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff
Here you go. It is a lot of dyads. Its harder for me to keep track of a
scale like this - slightly chromatic triads at the end.
A Child's Symmetry - per request - using the MOS 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 scale of
Porcupine15Lesfip
http://micro.soonlabel.com/15-ET/daily20120113-porcupine15lesfip-a-childs-symmetry.mp3
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Mike Battaglia <[email protected]>wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hey Chris, any chance you could try this one?
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > !
> /Applications/Scala.app/Contents/Resources/scala22/Porcupine15Lesfip.scl
> > !
> > asdljfkhlaksjdhfkasdgfaoiusdhfkejgflkjadshlfdkjhad
> > 15
> > !
> > 61.59759
> > 161.50757
> > 226.12741
> > 319.17600
> > 388.13838
> > 477.94924
> > 549.56710
> > 621.18496
> > 710.99581
> > 779.95820
> > 873.00679
> > 937.62663
> > 1037.53661
> > 1099.13420
> > 1200.00000
> >
> > -Mike
>
> There are two scales within this that are of interest: the MOS 2 1 2 2
> 2 2 2 and its modes, and the MOS 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 and its modes. Feel
> free to use these or not to use these as much as you want.
>
> I think this one might work really well.
>
> -Mike
>
>
>
From: Chris Vaisvil (2012-01-14)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff
Here is my piece - it is meant to be poly-metric
Iridium Platinum Meter - for harp, alto flute, upright bass, drum kit -
http://micro.soonlabel.com/15-ET/daily20120114-iridium-platinum-meter.mp3
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 3:36 PM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...>wrote:
> **
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> >
> > got it
>
> That one's just porcupine. This one is more interesting, and might be a
> good one to try:
>
> ! valenporc15.scl
> !
> Valentine-porcupine circulating strictly proper 15-note lesfip scale, 11
> limit diamond target, 13.8 to 15.5 cent tolerance
> ! approximately 555556655555555 in 77edo
> 15
> !
> 79.99698
> 158.13771
> 233.53897
> 314.10167
> 389.50293
> 467.64365
> 547.64064
> 623.18179
> 701.41713
> 780.49908
> 873.82032
> 967.14156
> 1046.22350
> 1124.45885
> 1200.00000
>
>
>