Topic: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems
1 scales
| File | Description | Notes | Period (¢) | Limit |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| caleb46 | 46 note 13-limit epimorphic scale | 46 | 1200.0 | 13 |
Thread (25 messages)
From: calebmrgn (2010-06-16) Subject: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems Maybe someone on the list can benefit from my trials and errors. My ear has always been drawn to extended Just Intonation for my own composition. I've come to some workable arrangements with my current gear. Basically, I'm using a user tuning in Logic for the Logic instruments: 1/1 on Bb raised 51 cents 17/16 9/8 19/16 5/4 4/3 (I might change this to 21/16) 11/8 3/2 13/8 27/16 14/8 15/8 Then, the pitch-bend range of each Logic instrument is set to +-12 semitones. (This is because many are sample-based, and they sound too much like Chipmunks when the pitch is raised--better to lower the pitch than raise it, with samples, imo.) Some Logic instruments, such as the FM instrument, won't allow any adjustment of their pitch-bend range--very tacky. For the FM instrument, I can play on a key, adjust with pitch-bend, and automate the harmonics parameters on the carrier and modulator waves--this will give all kinds of overtone sweeps, little tunes, etc. A tuning table is constructed to convert ratios to Logic's pitch-bend units (8192/1200 if the range is 12). Available here: http://www.box.net/files#/files/1/f/17990454 called Pitch-bend Conversion+-12.rtf The relevant column is on the far right under the heading 'PT12'. Scala files with my Hairy 36-note 11-limit scale (with one 13/12) are used for Pianoteq and Ethno 2. Their pitch-bend range is also set to +-12. For some reason, entering a number in the Pianoteq pitch-bend range window can be very tricky--it doesn't want to work at first. A quick test today seems to sound pretty darn accurate. Close enough for government work, anyway. My controller keyboard doesn't generate a full range of pitch-bend values downward. This caused some confusion. But this doesn't matter, the values have to be entered as numbers (-8192, etc.) anyway. So, it seems to be a workable set-up. I don't have to pitch-bend every pitch, mostly only when the 'fundamental' changes. Life would be better if Logic Pro 8 let you load a Scala file, but it doesn't for its own instruments, only those AU plug-ins that recognize Scala files. The Ethno 2 had to be authorized using the Audio Units Manager. Who knew? Logic Pro 8 crashes a lot, is buggy and not my style, and gives inscrutable error messages that apparently no-one understands, from a quick perusal of the Apple Logic forums. That's my news. Hope this might help anyone else who likes extended Just scales of more than 12 notes and wants to use Logic. It's do-able, but the solutions are workarounds. If anyone knows better--if I'm wrong, let me know. Caleb
From: Torsten Anders (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems On 16.06.2010, at 16:09, calebmrgn wrote: > Life would be better if Logic Pro 8 let you load a Scala file, but > it doesn't for its own instruments, only those AU plug-ins that > recognize Scala files. Charles Lucy was able to do that with Logic (http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html ). I vaguely remember that you have to put your Scala files manually into some Logic "systems folder". Best wishes, Torsten -- Torsten Anders Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research University of Plymouth Office: +44-1752-586219 Private: +44-1752-558917 http://strasheela.sourceforge.net http://www.torsten-anders.de
From: caleb morgan (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems It might have been Logic 7. There's no mention of it in either volume of the manual under Scale or Tuning. Charles Lucy has always said that if you want more than 12 pitches at once, you have to bounce down your tracks and reset the User tuning, which is only 12 pitches per octave. from his site: Logic Homepage If you wish to use more than 12 notes per octave in a single song (as in this mp3 example SDE which uses both G# in E Major and Ab in F minor) you will need to bounce the tracks in one tuning to audio files; change the tuning settings; and then bounce the remaining tracks in other tunings, before mixing all the audio signals. (my comment about bouncing down: That way lies madness!) If anyone can do Scala with Logic pro 8, I'd love to know. Caleb On Jun 16, 2010, at 12:24 PM, Torsten Anders wrote: > On 16.06.2010, at 16:09, calebmrgn wrote: > > Life would be better if Logic Pro 8 let you load a Scala file, but > > it doesn't for its own instruments, only those AU plug-ins that > > recognize Scala files. > > Charles Lucy was able to do that with Logic (http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html > ). > > I vaguely remember that you have to put your Scala files manually into > some Logic "systems folder". > > Best wishes, > Torsten > > -- > Torsten Anders > Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research > University of Plymouth > Office: +44-1752-586219 > Private: +44-1752-558917 > http://strasheela.sourceforge.net > http://www.torsten-anders.de > >
From: Ozan Yarman (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems You have to go to root>library>application support>logic>tuning tables and place your 12-tone SCL file there. That's how I do it. Oz. ✩ ✩ ✩ www.ozanyarman.com On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Torsten Anders wrote: > On 16.06.2010, at 16:09, calebmrgn wrote: >> Life would be better if Logic Pro 8 let you load a Scala file, but >> it doesn't for its own instruments, only those AU plug-ins that >> recognize Scala files. > > > Charles Lucy was able to do that with Logic (http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html > ). > > I vaguely remember that you have to put your Scala files manually into > some Logic "systems folder". > > Best wishes, > Torsten > > -- > Torsten Anders > Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research > University of Plymouth > Office: +44-1752-586219 > Private: +44-1752-558917 > http://strasheela.sourceforge.net > http://www.torsten-anders.de > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one > of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list): > [email protected] - join the tuning group. > [email protected] - leave the group. > [email protected] - turn off mail from the group. > [email protected] - set group to send daily digests. > [email protected] - set group to send individual emails. > [email protected] - receive general help information. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
From: caleb morgan (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems Does this have any advantage over just using the User Tuning? (The Scala file I'd like to use would have 36 tones, so it wouldn't work.) User Tuning seems to be accurate enough for my purposes. Was this Logic Pro 8? Caleb On Jun 16, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: > You have to go to root>library>application support>logic>tuning tables > > and place your 12-tone SCL file there. That's how I do it. > > Oz. > > ✩ ✩ ✩ > www.ozanyarman.com > > On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Torsten Anders wrote: > > > On 16.06.2010, at 16:09, calebmrgn wrote: > >> Life would be better if Logic Pro 8 let you load a Scala file, but > >> it doesn't for its own instruments, only those AU plug-ins that > >> recognize Scala files. > > > > > > Charles Lucy was able to do that with Logic (http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html > > ). > > > > I vaguely remember that you have to put your Scala files manually into > > some Logic "systems folder". > > > > Best wishes, > > Torsten > > > > -- > > Torsten Anders > > Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research > > University of Plymouth > > Office: +44-1752-586219 > > Private: +44-1752-558917 > > http://strasheela.sourceforge.net > > http://www.torsten-anders.de > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one > > of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list): > > [email protected] - join the tuning group. > > [email protected] - leave the group. > > [email protected] - turn off mail from the group. > > [email protected] - set group to send daily digests. > > [email protected] - set group to send individual emails. > > [email protected] - receive general help information. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >
From: Ozan Yarman (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems Use three instances of 12-tones, that would make 3 SCL files to place there in the Logic Pro 8 folder. The advantage over inputting cent offsets for each of the 12 equal tones is obvious... You don't need to bother with cent deviation calculations each time when you can work directly with pitches in ratios and/or cents via selecting the tuning from the menu. Oz. ✩ ✩ ✩ www.ozanyarman.com On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:39 PM, caleb morgan wrote: > > > Does this have any advantage over just using the User Tuning? > > (The Scala file I'd like to use would have 36 tones, so it wouldn't > work.) > > User Tuning seems to be accurate enough for my purposes. > > Was this Logic Pro 8? > > Caleb > > > > On Jun 16, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: > >> You have to go to root>library>application support>logic>tuning >> tables >> >> and place your 12-tone SCL file there. That's how I do it. >> >> Oz. >> >> ✩ ✩ ✩ >> www.ozanyarman.com >> >> On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Torsten Anders wrote: >> >> > On 16.06.2010, at 16:09, calebmrgn wrote: >> >> Life would be better if Logic Pro 8 let you load a Scala file, but >> >> it doesn't for its own instruments, only those AU plug-ins that >> >> recognize Scala files. >> > >> > >> > Charles Lucy was able to do that with Logic (http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html >> > ). >> > >> > I vaguely remember that you have to put your Scala files manually >> into >> > some Logic "systems folder". >> > >> > Best wishes, >> > Torsten >> > >> > -- >> > Torsten Anders >> > Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research >> > University of Plymouth >> > Office: +44-1752-586219 >> > Private: +44-1752-558917 >> > http://strasheela.sourceforge.net >> > http://www.torsten-anders.de >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------ >> > >> > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to >> one >> > of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the >> list): >> > [email protected] - join the tuning group. >> > [email protected] - leave the group. >> > [email protected] - turn off mail from the group. >> > [email protected] - set group to send daily digests. >> > [email protected] - set group to send individual >> emails. >> > [email protected] - receive general help information. >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > >
From: caleb morgan (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems I've read your response and I conclude that we don't understand one another. It took me approximately 3 minutes to do the offsets, it was easy, so convenience is not an issue. 3 12-note tunings are not a substitute for 1 36-note tuning. Please don't misunderstand, I have enormous respect for you. If you are busy, no need to speak further. Here's the Scala file for the scale that I've practiced for quite a few years: 36c'sHAIR2 ! c'sHAIR2 36 ! 16/15 13/12 12/11 11/10 10/9 9/8 8/7 7/6 32/27 6/5 11/9 5/4 14/11 9/7 4/3 15/11 11/8 7/5 10/7 16/11 22/15 3/2 14/9 11/7 8/5 18/11 5/3 27/16 12/7 7/4 16/9 9/5 20/11 11/6 15/8 2/1 I don't understand how breaking this up into 3 parts would help--the whole idea is to go quickly from one 'fundamental' to another. If Logic lets you sequence tuning changes or automate them, then I'd be enormously interested to learn that. Caleb On Jun 16, 2010, at 4:22 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: > > Use three instances of 12-tones, that would make 3 SCL files to place there in the Logic Pro 8 folder. > > The advantage over inputting cent offsets for each of the 12 equal tones is obvious... You don't need to bother with cent deviation calculations each time when you can work directly with pitches in ratios and/or cents via selecting the tuning from the menu. > > Oz. > > ✩ ✩ ✩ > www.ozanyarman.com > > On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:39 PM, caleb morgan wrote: > >> >> >> Does this have any advantage over just using the User Tuning? >> >> (The Scala file I'd like to use would have 36 tones, so it wouldn't work.) >> >> User Tuning seems to be accurate enough for my purposes. >> >> Was this Logic Pro 8? >> >> Caleb >> >> >> >> On Jun 16, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: >> >>> You have to go to root>library>application support>logic>tuning tables >>> >>> and place your 12-tone SCL file there. That's how I do it. >>> >>> Oz. >>> >>> ✩ ✩ ✩ >>> www.ozanyarman.com >>> >>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Torsten Anders wrote: >>> >>> > On 16.06.2010, at 16:09, calebmrgn wrote: >>> >> Life would be better if Logic Pro 8 let you load a Scala file, but >>> >> it doesn't for its own instruments, only those AU plug-ins that >>> >> recognize Scala files. >>> > >>> > >>> > Charles Lucy was able to do that with Logic (http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html >>> > ). >>> > >>> > I vaguely remember that you have to put your Scala files manually into >>> > some Logic "systems folder". >>> > >>> > Best wishes, >>> > Torsten >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Torsten Anders >>> > Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research >>> > University of Plymouth >>> > Office: +44-1752-586219 >>> > Private: +44-1752-558917 >>> > http://strasheela.sourceforge.net >>> > http://www.torsten-anders.de >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------ >>> > >>> > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one >>> > of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list): >>> > [email protected] - join the tuning group. >>> > [email protected] - leave the group. >>> > [email protected] - turn off mail from the group. >>> > [email protected] - set group to send daily digests. >>> > [email protected] - set group to send individual emails. >>> > [email protected] - receive general help information. >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >> >> >> > > >
From: Carl Lumma (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems --- In [email protected], caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote: > 3 12-note tunings are not a substitute for 1 36-note tuning. It is in Logic, which can only handle 12-tone tunings, as I've said before. -Carl
From: genewardsmith (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems --- In [email protected], caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote: > Here's the Scala file for the scale that I've practiced for quite a few years: You like superparticular scale steps but don't seem to mind much if the scale is quite irregular otherwise. I could give some 31, 41 or (and especially) 46 note 13-limit scales which went a lot smoother.
From: caleb morgan (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems You've said it, I've said it, Charles Lucy has said it, and the manual says it. That's not the issue. My question was whether there was a significant functional advantage of having a Scala file in Logic as opposed to using the user tuning--expressed as offsets. (Other than a moment looking at a tuning table and doing some simple subtraction and addition.) From what I've been told so far, I conclude the answer is 'no'. @ genewardsmith No, I don't mind if the scale is irregular. I like the sound of partials locking in, and I like the layout of the 36-note scale I've used. Again, the idea is to change fundamentals quickly with overtone series that are exactly in tune. In a tonal situation, I don't like pitches too close to 1/1, which is the main reason for the irregularity. 15/8 and 16/15 are close enough. However, merely because I like this scale, doesn't mean I can't learn a few new ones. I'd like to try out the tunings you have in mind. ===== As for the flow of this conversation, Gene, your 31 or 41-note scales won't work in Logic, either, so it's a new subject. My thread was simply about how best to implement a scale I liked, using necessary workarounds in Logic. As far as I knew, it wasn't an opportunity for you folks to express scorn. Caleb On Jun 16, 2010, at 5:40 PM, Carl Lumma wrote: > --- In [email protected], caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote: > > > 3 12-note tunings are not a substitute for 1 36-note tuning. > > It is in Logic, which can only handle 12-tone tunings, as I've > said before. -Carl > >
From: Ozan Yarman (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems Unfortunately, Logic 8 cannot change tunings on the fly. You need something like Scordatura to create a sequence of tunings and change them during the flow of a piece. However, as I delineated, you can utilize various SCL files containing all the pitches of your scale - much less bother than cent offset calculations IMO - and create various projects, each dealing with a certain subset of your 36-tone JI scheme. Then, mixdown the lot into one master audio file and then you'll have all of your 36 pitches. But I concur that this is too much of a bother. And since you cannot use wholy a 36-tone system, much less enjoy swift on-the-fly tuning changes between easy-to-manage subsets thereof, the obvious thing is to work with pitch-bends in a single project. Since you have a knack for offsets, the 14-bit PB conversion scheme is easy: (closest step of 12-EDO) ± (40.96*((log10 JI-Ratio / log10 2) * 1200) Snip your MIDI regions to your tuning convenience, mass-select the desired notes to bend in the piano roll, and insert the desired PB data in the Event List. Oz. ✩ ✩ ✩ www.ozanyarman.com On Jun 16, 2010, at 11:47 PM, caleb morgan wrote: > > > I've read your response and I conclude that we don't understand one > another. > > It took me approximately 3 minutes to do the offsets, it was easy, > so convenience is not an issue. > > 3 12-note tunings are not a substitute for 1 36-note tuning. > > Please don't misunderstand, I have enormous respect for you. If you > are busy, no need to speak further. > > Here's the Scala file for the scale that I've practiced for quite a > few years: > > 36c'sHAIR2 > ! > c'sHAIR2 > 36 > ! > 16/15 > 13/12 > 12/11 > 11/10 > 10/9 > 9/8 > 8/7 > 7/6 > 32/27 > 6/5 > 11/9 > 5/4 > 14/11 > 9/7 > 4/3 > 15/11 > 11/8 > 7/5 > 10/7 > 16/11 > 22/15 > 3/2 > 14/9 > 11/7 > 8/5 > 18/11 > 5/3 > 27/16 > 12/7 > 7/4 > 16/9 > 9/5 > 20/11 > 11/6 > 15/8 > 2/1 > > > I don't understand how breaking this up into 3 parts would help--the > whole idea is to go quickly from one 'fundamental' to another. > > If Logic lets you sequence tuning changes or automate them, then I'd > be enormously interested to learn that. > > > > Caleb > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2010, at 4:22 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: > >> >> Use three instances of 12-tones, that would make 3 SCL files to >> place there in the Logic Pro 8 folder. >> >> The advantage over inputting cent offsets for each of the 12 equal >> tones is obvious... You don't need to bother with cent deviation >> calculations each time when you can work directly with pitches in >> ratios and/or cents via selecting the tuning from the menu. >> >> Oz. >> >> ✩ ✩ ✩ >> www.ozanyarman.com >> >> On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:39 PM, caleb morgan wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Does this have any advantage over just using the User Tuning? >>> >>> (The Scala file I'd like to use would have 36 tones, so it >>> wouldn't work.) >>> >>> User Tuning seems to be accurate enough for my purposes. >>> >>> Was this Logic Pro 8? >>> >>> Caleb >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: >>> >>>> You have to go to root>library>application support>logic>tuning >>>> tables >>>> >>>> and place your 12-tone SCL file there. That's how I do it. >>>> >>>> Oz. >>>> >>>> ✩ ✩ ✩ >>>> www.ozanyarman.com >>>> >>>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Torsten Anders wrote: >>>> >>>> > On 16.06.2010, at 16:09, calebmrgn wrote: >>>> >> Life would be better if Logic Pro 8 let you load a Scala file, >>>> but >>>> >> it doesn't for its own instruments, only those AU plug-ins that >>>> >> recognize Scala files. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Charles Lucy was able to do that with Logic (http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html >>>> > ). >>>> > >>>> > I vaguely remember that you have to put your Scala files >>>> manually into >>>> > some Logic "systems folder". >>>> > >>>> > Best wishes, >>>> > Torsten >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Torsten Anders >>>> > Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research >>>> > University of Plymouth >>>> > Office: +44-1752-586219 >>>> > Private: +44-1752-558917 >>>> > http://strasheela.sourceforge.net >>>> > http://www.torsten-anders.de >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------------ >>>> > >>>> > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email >>>> to one >>>> > of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the >>>> list): >>>> > [email protected] - join the tuning group. >>>> > [email protected] - leave the group. >>>> > [email protected] - turn off mail from the group. >>>> > [email protected] - set group to send daily digests. >>>> > [email protected] - set group to send individual >>>> emails. >>>> > [email protected] - receive general help information. >>>> > Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >
From: Carl Lumma (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems --- In [email protected], caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote: > > You've said it, I've said it, Charles Lucy has said it, and the > manual says it. That's not the issue. > > My question was whether there was a significant functional > advantage of having a Scala file in Logic as opposed to using > the user tuning--expressed as offsets. (Other than a moment > looking at a tuning table and doing some simple subtraction and > addition.) > > From what I've been told so far, I conclude the answer is 'no'. Ah, sorry I misunderstood. Usually, if you can type something once or type it every time, most people choose the former. -Carl
From: Chris (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems Are the user tunings not working in Ethno 2 for Mac users? in ethno you can load two copies of an instrument and have a different tuning for each one. Switching tuning would be simply changing the midi channel to the appropiate instrument. Chris Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Ozan Yarman <[email protected]> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:07:09 To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems Unfortunately, Logic 8 cannot change tunings on the fly. You need something like Scordatura to create a sequence of tunings and change them during the flow of a piece. However, as I delineated, you can utilize various SCL files containing all the pitches of your scale - much less bother than cent offset calculations IMO - and create various projects, each dealing with a certain subset of your 36-tone JI scheme. Then, mixdown the lot into one master audio file and then you'll have all of your 36 pitches. But I concur that this is too much of a bother. And since you cannot use wholy a 36-tone system, much less enjoy swift on-the-fly tuning changes between easy-to-manage subsets thereof, the obvious thing is to work with pitch-bends in a single project. Since you have a knack for offsets, the 14-bit PB conversion scheme is easy: (closest step of 12-EDO) ± (40.96*((log10 JI-Ratio / log10 2) * 1200) Snip your MIDI regions to your tuning convenience, mass-select the desired notes to bend in the piano roll, and insert the desired PB data in the Event List. Oz. ✩ ✩ ✩ www.ozanyarman.com On Jun 16, 2010, at 11:47 PM, caleb morgan wrote: > > > I've read your response and I conclude that we don't understand one > another. > > It took me approximately 3 minutes to do the offsets, it was easy, > so convenience is not an issue. > > 3 12-note tunings are not a substitute for 1 36-note tuning. > > Please don't misunderstand, I have enormous respect for you. If you > are busy, no need to speak further. > > Here's the Scala file for the scale that I've practiced for quite a > few years: > > 36c'sHAIR2 > ! > c'sHAIR2 > 36 > ! > 16/15 > 13/12 > 12/11 > 11/10 > 10/9 > 9/8 > 8/7 > 7/6 > 32/27 > 6/5 > 11/9 > 5/4 > 14/11 > 9/7 > 4/3 > 15/11 > 11/8 > 7/5 > 10/7 > 16/11 > 22/15 > 3/2 > 14/9 > 11/7 > 8/5 > 18/11 > 5/3 > 27/16 > 12/7 > 7/4 > 16/9 > 9/5 > 20/11 > 11/6 > 15/8 > 2/1 > > > I don't understand how breaking this up into 3 parts would help--the > whole idea is to go quickly from one 'fundamental' to another. > > If Logic lets you sequence tuning changes or automate them, then I'd > be enormously interested to learn that. > > > > Caleb > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2010, at 4:22 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: > >> >> Use three instances of 12-tones, that would make 3 SCL files to >> place there in the Logic Pro 8 folder. >> >> The advantage over inputting cent offsets for each of the 12 equal >> tones is obvious... You don't need to bother with cent deviation >> calculations each time when you can work directly with pitches in >> ratios and/or cents via selecting the tuning from the menu. >> >> Oz. >> >> ✩ ✩ ✩ >> www.ozanyarman.com >> >> On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:39 PM, caleb morgan wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Does this have any advantage over just using the User Tuning? >>> >>> (The Scala file I'd like to use would have 36 tones, so it >>> wouldn't work.) >>> >>> User Tuning seems to be accurate enough for my purposes. >>> >>> Was this Logic Pro 8? >>> >>> Caleb >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: >>> >>>> You have to go to root>library>application support>logic>tuning >>>> tables >>>> >>>> and place your 12-tone SCL file there. That's how I do it. >>>> >>>> Oz. >>>> >>>> ✩ ✩ ✩ >>>> www.ozanyarman.com >>>> >>>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Torsten Anders wrote: >>>> >>>> > On 16.06.2010, at 16:09, calebmrgn wrote: >>>> >> Life would be better if Logic Pro 8 let you load a Scala file, >>>> but >>>> >> it doesn't for its own instruments, only those AU plug-ins that >>>> >> recognize Scala files. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Charles Lucy was able to do that with Logic (http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html >>>> > ). >>>> > >>>> > I vaguely remember that you have to put your Scala files >>>> manually into >>>> > some Logic "systems folder". >>>> > >>>> > Best wishes, >>>> > Torsten >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Torsten Anders >>>> > Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research >>>> > University of Plymouth >>>> > Office: +44-1752-586219 >>>> > Private: +44-1752-558917 >>>> > http://strasheela.sourceforge.net >>>> > http://www.torsten-anders.de >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------------ >>>> > >>>> > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email >>>> to one >>>> > of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the >>>> list): >>>> > [email protected] - join the tuning group. >>>> > [email protected] - leave the group. >>>> > [email protected] - turn off mail from the group. >>>> > [email protected] - set group to send daily digests. >>>> > [email protected] - set group to send individual >>>> emails. >>>> > [email protected] - receive general help information. >>>> > Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >
From: Ozan Yarman (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems But of course, I thought Caleb was specifically working with the Logic 8 set of integrated samplers. The Ethno2 AU unit is broader in microtuning capabilities. Oz. ✩ ✩ ✩ www.ozanyarman.com On Jun 17, 2010, at 1:34 AM, Chris wrote: > > > Are the user tunings not working in Ethno 2 for Mac users? > > in ethno you can load two copies of an instrument and have a > different tuning for each one. Switching tuning would be simply > changing the midi channel to the appropiate instrument. > > Chris > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > From: Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...> > Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:07:09 +0300 > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working > solutions and some remaining problems > > > Unfortunately, Logic 8 cannot change tunings on the fly. You need > something like Scordatura to create a sequence of tunings and change > them during the flow of a piece. > > However, as I delineated, you can utilize various SCL files > containing all the pitches of your scale - much less bother than > cent offset calculations IMO - and create various projects, each > dealing with a certain subset of your 36-tone JI scheme. Then, > mixdown the lot into one master audio file and then you'll have all > of your 36 pitches. > > But I concur that this is too much of a bother. And since you cannot > use wholy a 36-tone system, much less enjoy swift on-the-fly tuning > changes between easy-to-manage subsets thereof, the obvious thing is > to work with pitch-bends in a single project. Since you have a knack > for offsets, the 14-bit PB conversion scheme is easy: > > (closest step of 12-EDO) ± (40.96*((log10 JI-Ratio / log10 2) * 1200) > > Snip your MIDI regions to your tuning convenience, mass-select the > desired notes to bend in the piano roll, and insert the desired PB > data in the Event List. > > Oz. > > > ✩ ✩ ✩ > www.ozanyarman.com > > On Jun 16, 2010, at 11:47 PM, caleb morgan wrote: > >> >> >> I've read your response and I conclude that we don't understand one >> another. >> >> It took me approximately 3 minutes to do the offsets, it was easy, >> so convenience is not an issue. >> >> 3 12-note tunings are not a substitute for 1 36-note tuning. >> >> Please don't misunderstand, I have enormous respect for you. If >> you are busy, no need to speak further. >> >> Here's the Scala file for the scale that I've practiced for quite a >> few years: >> >> 36c'sHAIR2 >> ! >> c'sHAIR2 >> 36 >> ! >> 16/15 >> 13/12 >> 12/11 >> 11/10 >> 10/9 >> 9/8 >> 8/7 >> 7/6 >> 32/27 >> 6/5 >> 11/9 >> 5/4 >> 14/11 >> 9/7 >> 4/3 >> 15/11 >> 11/8 >> 7/5 >> 10/7 >> 16/11 >> 22/15 >> 3/2 >> 14/9 >> 11/7 >> 8/5 >> 18/11 >> 5/3 >> 27/16 >> 12/7 >> 7/4 >> 16/9 >> 9/5 >> 20/11 >> 11/6 >> 15/8 >> 2/1 >> >> >> I don't understand how breaking this up into 3 parts would help-- >> the whole idea is to go quickly from one 'fundamental' to another. >> >> If Logic lets you sequence tuning changes or automate them, then >> I'd be enormously interested to learn that. >> >> >> >> Caleb >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 16, 2010, at 4:22 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: >> >>> >>> Use three instances of 12-tones, that would make 3 SCL files to >>> place there in the Logic Pro 8 folder. >>> >>> The advantage over inputting cent offsets for each of the 12 equal >>> tones is obvious... You don't need to bother with cent deviation >>> calculations each time when you can work directly with pitches in >>> ratios and/or cents via selecting the tuning from the menu. >>> >>> Oz. >>> >>> ✩ ✩ ✩ >>> www.ozanyarman.com >>> >>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:39 PM, caleb morgan wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Does this have any advantage over just using the User Tuning? >>>> >>>> (The Scala file I'd like to use would have 36 tones, so it >>>> wouldn't work.) >>>> >>>> User Tuning seems to be accurate enough for my purposes. >>>> >>>> Was this Logic Pro 8? >>>> >>>> Caleb >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: >>>> >>>>> You have to go to root>library>application support>logic>tuning >>>>> tables >>>>> >>>>> and place your 12-tone SCL file there. That's how I do it. >>>>> >>>>> Oz. >>>>> >>>>> ✩ ✩ ✩ >>>>> www.ozanyarman.com >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Torsten Anders wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > On 16.06.2010, at 16:09, calebmrgn wrote: >>>>> >> Life would be better if Logic Pro 8 let you load a Scala >>>>> file, but >>>>> >> it doesn't for its own instruments, only those AU plug-ins that >>>>> >> recognize Scala files. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > Charles Lucy was able to do that with Logic (http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html >>>>> > ). >>>>> > >>>>> > I vaguely remember that you have to put your Scala files >>>>> manually into >>>>> > some Logic "systems folder". >>>>> > >>>>> > Best wishes, >>>>> > Torsten >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Torsten Anders >>>>> > Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research >>>>> > University of Plymouth >>>>> > Office: +44-1752-586219 >>>>> > Private: +44-1752-558917 >>>>> > http://strasheela.sourceforge.net >>>>> > http://www.torsten-anders.de >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ------------------------------------ >>>>> > >>>>> > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email >>>>> to one >>>>> > of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the >>>>> list): >>>>> > [email protected] - join the tuning group. >>>>> > [email protected] - leave the group. >>>>> > [email protected] - turn off mail from the group. >>>>> > [email protected] - set group to send daily digests. >>>>> > [email protected] - set group to send individual >>>>> emails. >>>>> > [email protected] - receive general help information. >>>>> > Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >
From: Chris (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems Ok, sorry. I just read the subject line and last couple messages. Chris Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Ozan Yarman <[email protected]> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:44:49 To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems But of course, I thought Caleb was specifically working with the Logic 8 set of integrated samplers. The Ethno2 AU unit is broader in microtuning capabilities. Oz. ✩ ✩ ✩ www.ozanyarman.com On Jun 17, 2010, at 1:34 AM, Chris wrote: > > > Are the user tunings not working in Ethno 2 for Mac users? > > in ethno you can load two copies of an instrument and have a > different tuning for each one. Switching tuning would be simply > changing the midi channel to the appropiate instrument. > > Chris > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > From: Ozan Yarman <[email protected]> > Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:07:09 +0300 > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working > solutions and some remaining problems > > > Unfortunately, Logic 8 cannot change tunings on the fly. You need > something like Scordatura to create a sequence of tunings and change > them during the flow of a piece. > > However, as I delineated, you can utilize various SCL files > containing all the pitches of your scale - much less bother than > cent offset calculations IMO - and create various projects, each > dealing with a certain subset of your 36-tone JI scheme. Then, > mixdown the lot into one master audio file and then you'll have all > of your 36 pitches. > > But I concur that this is too much of a bother. And since you cannot > use wholy a 36-tone system, much less enjoy swift on-the-fly tuning > changes between easy-to-manage subsets thereof, the obvious thing is > to work with pitch-bends in a single project. Since you have a knack > for offsets, the 14-bit PB conversion scheme is easy: > > (closest step of 12-EDO) ± (40.96*((log10 JI-Ratio / log10 2) * 1200) > > Snip your MIDI regions to your tuning convenience, mass-select the > desired notes to bend in the piano roll, and insert the desired PB > data in the Event List. > > Oz. > > > ✩ ✩ ✩ > www.ozanyarman.com > > On Jun 16, 2010, at 11:47 PM, caleb morgan wrote: > >> >> >> I've read your response and I conclude that we don't understand one >> another. >> >> It took me approximately 3 minutes to do the offsets, it was easy, >> so convenience is not an issue. >> >> 3 12-note tunings are not a substitute for 1 36-note tuning. >> >> Please don't misunderstand, I have enormous respect for you. If >> you are busy, no need to speak further. >> >> Here's the Scala file for the scale that I've practiced for quite a >> few years: >> >> 36c'sHAIR2 >> ! >> c'sHAIR2 >> 36 >> ! >> 16/15 >> 13/12 >> 12/11 >> 11/10 >> 10/9 >> 9/8 >> 8/7 >> 7/6 >> 32/27 >> 6/5 >> 11/9 >> 5/4 >> 14/11 >> 9/7 >> 4/3 >> 15/11 >> 11/8 >> 7/5 >> 10/7 >> 16/11 >> 22/15 >> 3/2 >> 14/9 >> 11/7 >> 8/5 >> 18/11 >> 5/3 >> 27/16 >> 12/7 >> 7/4 >> 16/9 >> 9/5 >> 20/11 >> 11/6 >> 15/8 >> 2/1 >> >> >> I don't understand how breaking this up into 3 parts would help-- >> the whole idea is to go quickly from one 'fundamental' to another. >> >> If Logic lets you sequence tuning changes or automate them, then >> I'd be enormously interested to learn that. >> >> >> >> Caleb >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 16, 2010, at 4:22 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: >> >>> >>> Use three instances of 12-tones, that would make 3 SCL files to >>> place there in the Logic Pro 8 folder. >>> >>> The advantage over inputting cent offsets for each of the 12 equal >>> tones is obvious... You don't need to bother with cent deviation >>> calculations each time when you can work directly with pitches in >>> ratios and/or cents via selecting the tuning from the menu. >>> >>> Oz. >>> >>> ✩ ✩ ✩ >>> www.ozanyarman.com >>> >>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:39 PM, caleb morgan wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Does this have any advantage over just using the User Tuning? >>>> >>>> (The Scala file I'd like to use would have 36 tones, so it >>>> wouldn't work.) >>>> >>>> User Tuning seems to be accurate enough for my purposes. >>>> >>>> Was this Logic Pro 8? >>>> >>>> Caleb >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: >>>> >>>>> You have to go to root>library>application support>logic>tuning >>>>> tables >>>>> >>>>> and place your 12-tone SCL file there. That's how I do it. >>>>> >>>>> Oz. >>>>> >>>>> ✩ ✩ ✩ >>>>> www.ozanyarman.com >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Torsten Anders wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > On 16.06.2010, at 16:09, calebmrgn wrote: >>>>> >> Life would be better if Logic Pro 8 let you load a Scala >>>>> file, but >>>>> >> it doesn't for its own instruments, only those AU plug-ins that >>>>> >> recognize Scala files. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > Charles Lucy was able to do that with Logic (http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html >>>>> > ). >>>>> > >>>>> > I vaguely remember that you have to put your Scala files >>>>> manually into >>>>> > some Logic "systems folder". >>>>> > >>>>> > Best wishes, >>>>> > Torsten >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Torsten Anders >>>>> > Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research >>>>> > University of Plymouth >>>>> > Office: +44-1752-586219 >>>>> > Private: +44-1752-558917 >>>>> > http://strasheela.sourceforge.net >>>>> > http://www.torsten-anders.de >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ------------------------------------ >>>>> > >>>>> > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email >>>>> to one >>>>> > of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the >>>>> list): >>>>> > [email protected] - join the tuning group. >>>>> > [email protected] - leave the group. >>>>> > [email protected] - turn off mail from the group. >>>>> > [email protected] - set group to send daily digests. >>>>> > [email protected] - set group to send individual >>>>> emails. >>>>> > [email protected] - receive general help information. >>>>> > Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >
From: caleb morgan (2010-06-16) Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems No, they are working. You can have a tuning of more than 12 notes. So, no problem with Ethno or Pianoteq. The scale I've favored is essentially 7 overtone series sharing one common overtone--the 1/1. The series are /1, /9, /5, /11, /3, /7, and /15, moving downward. The problem has been how to get Logic instruments to be able to hit those fundamentals. Pitch-bend will work. The reason I like having the whole 36 (or whatever) notes at once is so that I can hear mixtures of overtone series, and so that I can explore voice-leading with common-tones. No, not Renaissance-style--though there's nothing wrong with that. /13 would be nice, of course, but when I came up with that scale a while back, I had to draw the line somewhere. As for the sampler in Logic, it would be possible to implement a more-than-12 scale with it, by assigning the same sample to each of separate keys, and retuning each key. This would work, but it will take a lot of work. No more work than tuning a piano, though. Caleb On Jun 16, 2010, at 6:34 PM, Chris wrote: > Are the user tunings not working in Ethno 2 for Mac users? > > in ethno you can load two copies of an instrument and have a different tuning for each one. Switching tuning would be simply changing the midi channel to the appropiate instrument. > > Chris > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > From: Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...> > Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:07:09 +0300 > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems > > > > Unfortunately, Logic 8 cannot change tunings on the fly. You need something like Scordatura to create a sequence of tunings and change them during the flow of a piece. > > However, as I delineated, you can utilize various SCL files containing all the pitches of your scale - much less bother than cent offset calculations IMO - and create various projects, each dealing with a certain subset of your 36-tone JI scheme. Then, mixdown the lot into one master audio file and then you'll have all of your 36 pitches. > > But I concur that this is too much of a bother. And since you cannot use wholy a 36-tone system, much less enjoy swift on-the-fly tuning changes between easy-to-manage subsets thereof, the obvious thing is to work with pitch-bends in a single project. Since you have a knack for offsets, the 14-bit PB conversion scheme is easy: > > (closest step of 12-EDO) ± (40.96*((log10 JI-Ratio / log10 2) * 1200) > > Snip your MIDI regions to your tuning convenience, mass-select the desired notes to bend in the piano roll, and insert the desired PB data in the Event List. > > Oz. > > > ✩ ✩ ✩ > www.ozanyarman.com > > On Jun 16, 2010, at 11:47 PM, caleb morgan wrote: > >> >> >> I've read your response and I conclude that we don't understand one another. >> >> It took me approximately 3 minutes to do the offsets, it was easy, so convenience is not an issue. >> >> 3 12-note tunings are not a substitute for 1 36-note tuning. >> >> Please don't misunderstand, I have enormous respect for you. If you are busy, no need to speak further. >> >> Here's the Scala file for the scale that I've practiced for quite a few years: >> >> 36c'sHAIR2 >> ! >> c'sHAIR2 >> 36 >> ! >> 16/15 >> 13/12 >> 12/11 >> 11/10 >> 10/9 >> 9/8 >> 8/7 >> 7/6 >> 32/27 >> 6/5 >> 11/9 >> 5/4 >> 14/11 >> 9/7 >> 4/3 >> 15/11 >> 11/8 >> 7/5 >> 10/7 >> 16/11 >> 22/15 >> 3/2 >> 14/9 >> 11/7 >> 8/5 >> 18/11 >> 5/3 >> 27/16 >> 12/7 >> 7/4 >> 16/9 >> 9/5 >> 20/11 >> 11/6 >> 15/8 >> 2/1 >> >> >> I don't understand how breaking this up into 3 parts would help--the whole idea is to go quickly from one 'fundamental' to another. >> >> If Logic lets you sequence tuning changes or automate them, then I'd be enormously interested to learn that. >> >> >> >> Caleb >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 16, 2010, at 4:22 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: >> >>> >>> Use three instances of 12-tones, that would make 3 SCL files to place there in the Logic Pro 8 folder. >>> >>> The advantage over inputting cent offsets for each of the 12 equal tones is obvious... You don't need to bother with cent deviation calculations each time when you can work directly with pitches in ratios and/or cents via selecting the tuning from the menu. >>> >>> Oz. >>> >>> ✩ ✩ ✩ >>> www.ozanyarman.com >>> >>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:39 PM, caleb morgan wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Does this have any advantage over just using the User Tuning? >>>> >>>> (The Scala file I'd like to use would have 36 tones, so it wouldn't work.) >>>> >>>> User Tuning seems to be accurate enough for my purposes. >>>> >>>> Was this Logic Pro 8? >>>> >>>> Caleb >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Ozan Yarman wrote: >>>> >>>>> You have to go to root>library>application support>logic>tuning tables >>>>> >>>>> and place your 12-tone SCL file there. That's how I do it. >>>>> >>>>> Oz. >>>>> >>>>> ✩ ✩ ✩ >>>>> www.ozanyarman.com >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Torsten Anders wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > On 16.06.2010, at 16:09, calebmrgn wrote: >>>>> >> Life would be better if Logic Pro 8 let you load a Scala file, but >>>>> >> it doesn't for its own instruments, only those AU plug-ins that >>>>> >> recognize Scala files. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > Charles Lucy was able to do that with Logic (http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html >>>>> > ). >>>>> > >>>>> > I vaguely remember that you have to put your Scala files manually into >>>>> > some Logic "systems folder". >>>>> > >>>>> > Best wishes, >>>>> > Torsten >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Torsten Anders >>>>> > Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research >>>>> > University of Plymouth >>>>> > Office: +44-1752-586219 >>>>> > Private: +44-1752-558917 >>>>> > http://strasheela.sourceforge.net >>>>> > http://www.torsten-anders.de >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ------------------------------------ >>>>> > >>>>> > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one >>>>> > of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list): >>>>> > [email protected] - join the tuning group. >>>>> > [email protected] - leave the group. >>>>> > [email protected] - turn off mail from the group. >>>>> > [email protected] - set group to send daily digests. >>>>> > [email protected] - set group to send individual emails. >>>>> > [email protected] - receive general help information. >>>>> > Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > >
From: genewardsmith (2010-06-17) Subject: Re: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems --- In [email protected], caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote: > @ genewardsmith > > No, I don't mind if the scale is irregular. I like the sound of partials locking in, and I like the layout of the 36-note scale I've used. Again, the idea is to change fundamentals quickly with overtone series that are exactly in tune. > > In a tonal situation, I don't like pitches too close to 1/1, which is the main reason for the irregularity. 15/8 and 16/15 are close enough. > > However, merely because I like this scale, doesn't mean I can't learn a few new ones. > > I'd like to try out the tunings you have in mind. See what you think of this one: ! caleb46.scl 46 note 13-limit epimorphic scale 46 ! 49/48 36/35 21/20 16/15 13/12 11/10 10/9 9/8 8/7 7/6 13/11 6/5 11/9 16/13 5/4 14/11 9/7 21/16 4/3 27/20 11/8 7/5 45/32 10/7 16/11 40/27 3/2 32/21 14/9 11/7 8/5 13/8 18/11 5/3 22/13 12/7 7/4 16/9 9/5 11/6 13/7 15/8 21/11 35/18 55/28 2
From: Chris Vaisvil (2010-06-17) Subject: Re: [tuning] Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems If you can work with 1 voice per channel I wonder little miss scale oven could help you. In theory I could do that with fractal tune smithy and sonar (once I figure it out). But FTS is a winders only program I think. Your scale sounds interesting!! Chris On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 6:49 PM, caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote: > > > > No, they are working. You can have a tuning of more than 12 notes. > So, no problem with Ethno or Pianoteq. > The scale I've favored is essentially 7 overtone series sharing one common overtone--the 1/1. > The series are /1, /9, /5, /11, /3, /7, and /15, moving downward. > The problem has been how to get Logic instruments to be able to hit those fundamentals. Pitch-bend will work. > The reason I like having the whole 36 (or whatever) notes at once is so that I can hear mixtures of overtone series, and so that I can > explore voice-leading with common-tones. No, not Renaissance-style--though there's nothing wrong with that. > /13 would be nice, of course, but when I came up with that scale a while back, I had to draw the line somewhere. > As for the sampler in Logic, it would be possible to implement a more-than-12 scale with it, by assigning the same sample to each of separate keys, and retuning each key. This would work, but it will take a lot of work. No more work than tuning a piano, though. > Caleb > > >
From: caleb morgan (2010-06-17) Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems Thanks! I've copied it to my "good microtonal wisdom" file, and I'll try it this week. I notice that for /13 ratios there is: 16/13 and 22/13. So the scale doesn't include a lot of /13 for its own sake. I imagine pitches like 18/13, 20/13, 24/13, 14/13, 15/13 fell too close to other pitches for you to want to include them. Will taste fully later. Caleb On Jun 16, 2010, at 9:52 PM, genewardsmith wrote: > > > --- In [email protected], caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote: > > > @ genewardsmith > > > > No, I don't mind if the scale is irregular. I like the sound of partials locking in, and I like the layout of the 36-note scale I've used. Again, the idea is to change fundamentals quickly with overtone series that are exactly in tune. > > > > In a tonal situation, I don't like pitches too close to 1/1, which is the main reason for the irregularity. 15/8 and 16/15 are close enough. > > > > However, merely because I like this scale, doesn't mean I can't learn a few new ones. > > > > I'd like to try out the tunings you have in mind. > > See what you think of this one: > > ! caleb46.scl > 46 note 13-limit epimorphic scale > 46 > ! > 49/48 > 36/35 > 21/20 > 16/15 > 13/12 > 11/10 > 10/9 > 9/8 > 8/7 > 7/6 > 13/11 > 6/5 > 11/9 > 16/13 > 5/4 > 14/11 > 9/7 > 21/16 > 4/3 > 27/20 > 11/8 > 7/5 > 45/32 > 10/7 > 16/11 > 40/27 > 3/2 > 32/21 > 14/9 > 11/7 > 8/5 > 13/8 > 18/11 > 5/3 > 22/13 > 12/7 > 7/4 > 16/9 > 9/5 > 11/6 > 13/7 > 15/8 > 21/11 > 35/18 > 55/28 > 2 > >
From: caleb morgan (2010-06-18) Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems Here are some problems I seem to be having the Ethno 2.0.1 as an AU plug-in with Logic Studio Pro 8. The problem is with multi-timbral use, so it didn't show up right away. >Everything appears to be working properly on channel 1. Midi lights work, Scala tunings work, keymaps work, semi and fine-tuning work. However: I'm trying to use Gerome Arch-Top (or anything) on channel 3. It loads, and it plays. But there is no Midi light. Semi and fine tuning don't work. It shows my Scala tuning under the Tuning windows, and the keymap. But it isn't sounding. It's just playing in equal temperament. This is true whether I have the tunings and maps in the folder, or whether I drag and drop them directly. I'm puzzled, because surely people have tried the Ethno 2 multi-timbrally. For example, Ozzie Yarman. (Though I hesitate to bother him.) Has anyone duplicated these conditions and had it work, or not? Caleb
From: caleb morgan (2010-06-18) Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems The problem is NOT occurring when I use the Ethno as a stand-alone unit. So it's something to do with Midi settings or Logic. hmm. caleb On Jun 18, 2010, at 8:57 AM, caleb morgan wrote: > > Here are some problems I seem to be having the Ethno 2.0.1 as an AU plug-in with Logic Studio Pro 8. > > The problem is with multi-timbral use, so it didn't show up right away. > > >Everything appears to be working properly on channel 1. Midi lights work, Scala tunings work, keymaps work, semi and fine-tuning work. > > However: > > I'm trying to use Gerome Arch-Top (or anything) on channel 3. It loads, and it plays. But there is no Midi light. Semi and fine tuning don't work. > It shows my Scala tuning under the Tuning windows, and the keymap. But it isn't sounding. It's just playing in equal temperament. > > This is true whether I have the tunings and maps in the folder, or whether I drag and drop them directly. > > > I'm puzzled, because surely people have tried the Ethno 2 multi-timbrally. > > For example, Ozzie Yarman. (Though I hesitate to bother him.) > > Has anyone duplicated these conditions and had it work, or not? > > Caleb > > > > > >
From: caleb morgan (2010-06-18) Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems OK, It's another case of operator error. Caleb is officially an idiot. It was an a setup problem with my Micro Express--fixed using Clockworks. And, it was confusion about what channel I was on in Logic. It appears to be working normally--right now. Still, I could have *sworn* it wasn't working right. It was as I described it. From now on, I'll allow *TWO* hours before I post any problems, not just one hour. My apologies. Caleb On Jun 18, 2010, at 9:28 AM, caleb morgan wrote: > > The problem is NOT occurring when I use the Ethno as a stand-alone unit. > > So it's something to do with Midi settings or Logic. > > hmm. > > caleb > > > On Jun 18, 2010, at 8:57 AM, caleb morgan wrote: > >> >> >> >> Here are some problems I seem to be having the Ethno 2.0.1 as an AU plug-in with Logic Studio Pro 8. >> >> The problem is with multi-timbral use, so it didn't show up right away. >> >> >Everything appears to be working properly on channel 1. Midi lights work, Scala tunings work, keymaps work, semi and fine-tuning work. >> >> However: >> >> I'm trying to use Gerome Arch-Top (or anything) on channel 3. It loads, and it plays. But there is no Midi light. Semi and fine tuning don't work. >> It shows my Scala tuning under the Tuning windows, and the keymap. But it isn't sounding. It's just playing in equal temperament. >> >> This is true whether I have the tunings and maps in the folder, or whether I drag and drop them directly. >> >> >> I'm puzzled, because surely people have tried the Ethno 2 multi-timbrally. >> >> For example, Ozzie Yarman. (Though I hesitate to bother him.) >> >> Has anyone duplicated these conditions and had it work, or not? >> >> Caleb >> >> >> >> >> > > >
From: caleb morgan (2010-06-18) Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems In defense of my own industry and intelligence, it's still acting weird. > I'm playing on Channel 1 in Logic. on the Ethno 2, channel A1 is showing Cymbalum KS. But, I'm hearing a guitar I loaded previously. Furthermore, sometimes the Midi lights and level indicators work, sometimes they don't. Sometimes the semi and fine tune work, sometimes they don't. This makes me want to go to my closet and dust off my Les Paul Custom, and just play a few choruses of Old Fogey Ain't No Techie Blues. caleb On Jun 18, 2010, at 9:28 AM, caleb morgan wrote: > > The problem is NOT occurring when I use the Ethno as a stand-alone unit. > > So it's something to do with Midi settings or Logic. > > hmm. > > caleb > > > On Jun 18, 2010, at 8:57 AM, caleb morgan wrote: > >> >> >> >> Here are some problems I seem to be having the Ethno 2.0.1 as an AU plug-in with Logic Studio Pro 8. >> >> The problem is with multi-timbral use, so it didn't show up right away. >> >> >Everything appears to be working properly on channel 1. Midi lights work, Scala tunings work, keymaps work, semi and fine-tuning work. >> >> However: >> >> I'm trying to use Gerome Arch-Top (or anything) on channel 3. It loads, and it plays. But there is no Midi light. Semi and fine tuning don't work. >> It shows my Scala tuning under the Tuning windows, and the keymap. But it isn't sounding. It's just playing in equal temperament. >> >> This is true whether I have the tunings and maps in the folder, or whether I drag and drop them directly. >> >> >> I'm puzzled, because surely people have tried the Ethno 2 multi-timbrally. >> >> For example, Ozzie Yarman. (Though I hesitate to bother him.) >> >> Has anyone duplicated these conditions and had it work, or not? >> >> Caleb >> >> >> >> >> > > >
From: caleb morgan (2010-06-18) Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems Aha! My mistake was that I didn't check the box under 'multi-timbral' instrument when creating tracks in Logic. Here is yet another instance where the design of Logic is inscrutable and fussy. That is, a simple midi routing should either work or not work, NOT half work. Yet another instance where I made a mistake, but Logic was unforgiving. 'Multi-timbral' when creating the Ethno tracks. Otherwise, it half works. Caleb (chastened but unbowed and unbent) (he scuttles away with tail between legs) On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:29 AM, caleb morgan wrote: > > In defense of my own industry and intelligence, it's still acting weird. > > > I'm playing on Channel 1 in Logic. > > on the Ethno 2, channel A1 is showing Cymbalum KS. > > But, I'm hearing a guitar I loaded previously. > > Furthermore, sometimes the Midi lights and level indicators work, sometimes they don't. > > Sometimes the semi and fine tune work, sometimes they don't. > > This makes me want to go to my closet and dust off my Les Paul Custom, and just play a few choruses of Old Fogey Ain't No Techie Blues. > > caleb > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 2010, at 9:28 AM, caleb morgan wrote: > >> >> >> The problem is NOT occurring when I use the Ethno as a stand-alone unit. >> >> So it's something to do with Midi settings or Logic. >> >> hmm. >> >> caleb >> >> >> On Jun 18, 2010, at 8:57 AM, caleb morgan wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Here are some problems I seem to be having the Ethno 2.0.1 as an AU plug-in with Logic Studio Pro 8. >>> >>> The problem is with multi-timbral use, so it didn't show up right away. >>> >>> >Everything appears to be working properly on channel 1. Midi lights work, Scala tunings work, keymaps work, semi and fine-tuning work. >>> >>> However: >>> >>> I'm trying to use Gerome Arch-Top (or anything) on channel 3. It loads, and it plays. But there is no Midi light. Semi and fine tuning don't work. >>> It shows my Scala tuning under the Tuning windows, and the keymap. But it isn't sounding. It's just playing in equal temperament. >>> >>> This is true whether I have the tunings and maps in the folder, or whether I drag and drop them directly. >>> >>> >>> I'm puzzled, because surely people have tried the Ethno 2 multi-timbrally. >>> >>> For example, Ozzie Yarman. (Though I hesitate to bother him.) >>> >>> Has anyone duplicated these conditions and had it work, or not? >>> >>> Caleb >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >
From: Chris Vaisvil (2010-06-18) Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Logic Pro 8, Pianoteq, Ethno 2--working solutions and some remaining problems Don't feel bad - my experiences with Abelton Live were similar. In Live you *have* to put a widget into each track to save the music as a wav but *no where* does it says this is needed. I think my copy of Live must of forgot the required Telepathy adapter for my 'puter... Chris On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 1:52 PM, caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote: > > > > Aha! > My mistake was that I didn't check the box under 'multi-timbral' instrument when creating tracks in Logic. > Here is yet another instance where the design of Logic is inscrutable and fussy. > That is, a simple midi routing should either work or not work, NOT half work. > Yet another instance where I made a mistake, but Logic was unforgiving. > 'Multi-timbral' when creating the Ethno tracks. Otherwise, it half works. > Caleb (chastened but unbowed and unbent) > (he scuttles away with tail between legs) >