Topic: "Lazy Sunday" -- an 11-limit tune

2 scales

Thread (4 messages)

From: Jake Freivald (2011-08-13)
Subject: "Lazy Sunday" -- an 11-limit tune

This is called "Lazy Sunday". It's a very short jazz-combo sort of
piece, though that wasn't what I originally intended. I think I like
this best of the microtonal compositions I've made so far.

http://www.freivald.org/~jake/documents/lazy%20sunday-72%20EDO.mp3

I started by creating a scale with a lot of 11-limit notes in it. I
like proper scales, so I had to wedge a lot of notes in to make it
flesh out all the little intervals properly. The resulting scale is
here:

! C:\Program Files (x86)\Scala22\mostly-elevens-scale.scl
!
Scale derived mostly from elevens.
 17
!
 33/32
 12/11
 25/22
 33/28
 11/9
 14/11
 4/3
 7/5
 16/11
 3/2
 11/7
 18/11
 56/33
 16/9
 11/6
 21/11
 2/1

It looked like I should temper 540/539 and 441/440; I seem to remember
them being quite prevalent when I looked at different interval
combinations, though I blush to say I don't remember which ones they
equated. As such, I tempered to 58 EDO. Looking deeper and comparing
intervals in Scala showed that 9801/9800, 3025/3024, 43923/43904,
5632/5625, and 42592/42525 were likely candidates. Looking into it, I
discovered that 72 EDO tempers 540/539, 441/440, and all but the last
two commas, so that's what I tempered it to, and that's what's in the
MP3. Here's the scale:

! C:\Program Files (x86)\Scala22\mostly-elevens-scale-tempered-to-72-EDO.scl
!

 17
!
 50.00000
 150.00000
 216.66700
 283.33300
 350.00000
 416.66700
 500.00000
 583.33300
 650.00000
 700.00000
 783.33300
 850.00000
 916.66700
 1000.00000
 1050.00000
 1116.66700
 1200.00000

It's pretty accurate. The 25/22 is the worst, at only 4.6 cents flat,
which is about the best possible distinction my ears can make on very
close listening in ideal circumstances. Also, note that 72 EDO equates
33/28 with 13/11, and makes (14/11)*(33/28) = (14/11)*(13/11) = 3/2.
The scale is only proper now, not strictly proper, but that's okay
with me.

Note that 144 EDO gives the same exact result. I'd be interested in
any other ideas on how it could have been tempered.

I was going to write something a little spooky or ambiguous, so I
settled on a chord progression like this:

1. 1/1 root, neutral chord
2. 12/11 root, septimal minor chord
3. 11/6 root, septimal minor chord
4. 4/3 root, neutral chord

I wrote a bass line and rendered it with a harsh, deep square wave --
but try as I might, I couldn't hear it as spooky. In fact, it seemed
pretty darned happy, like a walking bass line from a jazz combo. After
spending a half-hour trying to fix it, I gave up, changed the
instrument to acoustic bass, added the guitar chops, and started to
write a saxophone melody.

I thought the melody should cover a lot of notes in the scale to
really call out its flavor, so I walk up and down the scale for the
refrain. It's lazy, though, so I made sure it felt a little sloppy.
Then I got little sillier in the verse -- I'm terrible at writing
solos, so I kept it short. If I had a real microtonal sax player, I'd
prefer to extend the solo, and have more solos with other instruments,
and all that good stuff. In a sense, what I have here is a proof of
concept of the piece more than what I'd like the piece to be.

I thought about cutting out some of the repetition. The bass line
walks through a complete chorus, and then the chords go through a
complete chorus, and then the sax kicks in. But I decided I really
like getting the bass on its own AND the sound of the chords, so I
left them. Your mileage may vary.

In the end, almost all of the notes get used at least a few times, and
the piece pretty successfully sounds non-twelve.

I also thought that everyone except the sax players would have killed
me if I wrote them something this boring. When I tried making the bass
player play passing tones, though, it sounded pretty harsh, so I
limited them to the verse. I attribute that to a lack of subtlety in
my control of LilyPond / Timidity. Again, in the real world, I'd hope
for some improv there to make the tune better.

Speaking of LilyPond, I'd love to have or find a "strum" function. I
have to write fairly complex expressions to get the sound I have here.
I started with a simple chord, but I didn't get the strum / chop sound
I do here, and I really wanted that, so I had to write a bunch of
stuff with ties and... well, it was a nuisance. If anyone cares how I
did it, I'll share the code.

Your thoughts are always welcome, of course.

Regards,
Jake

From: Herman Miller (2011-08-13)
Subject: Re: [MMM] "Lazy Sunday" -- an 11-limit tune

On 8/13/2011 10:53 AM, Jake Freivald wrote:
> This is called "Lazy Sunday". It's a very short jazz-combo sort of
> piece, though that wasn't what I originally intended. I think I like
> this best of the microtonal compositions I've made so far.

...

> I wrote a bass line and rendered it with a harsh, deep square wave --
> but try as I might, I couldn't hear it as spooky. In fact, it seemed
> pretty darned happy, like a walking bass line from a jazz combo. After
> spending a half-hour trying to fix it, I gave up, changed the
> instrument to acoustic bass, added the guitar chops, and started to
> write a saxophone melody.

I like it. If you're aiming for "spooky", I think you did well.

From: Chris Vaisvil (2011-08-14)
Subject: Re: [MMM] "Lazy Sunday" -- an 11-limit tune

I like it - quite a bit. It has a strange feel to it. Like a lazy Sunday
that is a hot afternoon with a cooler of beer at the park or beach in the
shade watching people go by.

Chris

On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> This is called "Lazy Sunday". It's a very short jazz-combo sort of
> piece, though that wasn't what I originally intended. I think I like
> this best of the microtonal compositions I've made so far.
>
> http://www.freivald.org/~jake/documents/lazy%20sunday-72%20EDO.mp3<http://www.freivald.org/%7Ejake/documents/lazy%20sunday-72%20EDO.mp3>
>
> I started by creating a scale with a lot of 11-limit notes in it. I
> like proper scales, so I had to wedge a lot of notes in to make it
> flesh out all the little intervals properly. The resulting scale is
> here:
>
> ! C:\Program Files (x86)\Scala22\mostly-elevens-scale.scl
> !
> Scale derived mostly from elevens.
> 17
> !
> 33/32
> 12/11
> 25/22
> 33/28
> 11/9
> 14/11
> 4/3
> 7/5
> 16/11
> 3/2
> 11/7
> 18/11
> 56/33
> 16/9
> 11/6
> 21/11
> 2/1
>
> It looked like I should temper 540/539 and 441/440; I seem to remember
> them being quite prevalent when I looked at different interval
> combinations, though I blush to say I don't remember which ones they
> equated. As such, I tempered to 58 EDO. Looking deeper and comparing
> intervals in Scala showed that 9801/9800, 3025/3024, 43923/43904,
> 5632/5625, and 42592/42525 were likely candidates. Looking into it, I
> discovered that 72 EDO tempers 540/539, 441/440, and all but the last
> two commas, so that's what I tempered it to, and that's what's in the
> MP3. Here's the scale:
>
> ! C:\Program Files
> (x86)\Scala22\mostly-elevens-scale-tempered-to-72-EDO.scl
> !
>
> 17
> !
> 50.00000
> 150.00000
> 216.66700
> 283.33300
> 350.00000
> 416.66700
> 500.00000
> 583.33300
> 650.00000
> 700.00000
> 783.33300
> 850.00000
> 916.66700
> 1000.00000
> 1050.00000
> 1116.66700
> 1200.00000
>
> It's pretty accurate. The 25/22 is the worst, at only 4.6 cents flat,
> which is about the best possible distinction my ears can make on very
> close listening in ideal circumstances. Also, note that 72 EDO equates
> 33/28 with 13/11, and makes (14/11)*(33/28) = (14/11)*(13/11) = 3/2.
> The scale is only proper now, not strictly proper, but that's okay
> with me.
>
> Note that 144 EDO gives the same exact result. I'd be interested in
> any other ideas on how it could have been tempered.
>
> I was going to write something a little spooky or ambiguous, so I
> settled on a chord progression like this:
>
> 1. 1/1 root, neutral chord
> 2. 12/11 root, septimal minor chord
> 3. 11/6 root, septimal minor chord
> 4. 4/3 root, neutral chord
>
> I wrote a bass line and rendered it with a harsh, deep square wave --
> but try as I might, I couldn't hear it as spooky. In fact, it seemed
> pretty darned happy, like a walking bass line from a jazz combo. After
> spending a half-hour trying to fix it, I gave up, changed the
> instrument to acoustic bass, added the guitar chops, and started to
> write a saxophone melody.
>
> I thought the melody should cover a lot of notes in the scale to
> really call out its flavor, so I walk up and down the scale for the
> refrain. It's lazy, though, so I made sure it felt a little sloppy.
> Then I got little sillier in the verse -- I'm terrible at writing
> solos, so I kept it short. If I had a real microtonal sax player, I'd
> prefer to extend the solo, and have more solos with other instruments,
> and all that good stuff. In a sense, what I have here is a proof of
> concept of the piece more than what I'd like the piece to be.
>
> I thought about cutting out some of the repetition. The bass line
> walks through a complete chorus, and then the chords go through a
> complete chorus, and then the sax kicks in. But I decided I really
> like getting the bass on its own AND the sound of the chords, so I
> left them. Your mileage may vary.
>
> In the end, almost all of the notes get used at least a few times, and
> the piece pretty successfully sounds non-twelve.
>
> I also thought that everyone except the sax players would have killed
> me if I wrote them something this boring. When I tried making the bass
> player play passing tones, though, it sounded pretty harsh, so I
> limited them to the verse. I attribute that to a lack of subtlety in
> my control of LilyPond / Timidity. Again, in the real world, I'd hope
> for some improv there to make the tune better.
>
> Speaking of LilyPond, I'd love to have or find a "strum" function. I
> have to write fairly complex expressions to get the sound I have here.
> I started with a simple chord, but I didn't get the strum / chop sound
> I do here, and I really wanted that, so I had to write a bunch of
> stuff with ties and... well, it was a nuisance. If anyone cares how I
> did it, I'll share the code.
>
> Your thoughts are always welcome, of course.
>
> Regards,
> Jake
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jake Freivald (2011-08-15)
Subject: Re: "Lazy Sunday" -- an 11-limit tune

Thanks for the listens and comments, Herman and Chris!

Regards,
Jake


On 8/14/11, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> I like it - quite a bit. It has a strange feel to it. Like a lazy Sunday
> that is a hot afternoon with a cooler of beer at the park or beach in the
> shade watching people go by.
>
> Chris
>
> On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...>wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> This is called "Lazy Sunday". It's a very short jazz-combo sort of
>> piece, though that wasn't what I originally intended. I think I like
>> this best of the microtonal compositions I've made so far.
>>
>> http://www.freivald.org/~jake/documents/lazy%20sunday-72%20EDO.mp3<http://www.freivald.org/%7Ejake/documents/lazy%20sunday-72%20EDO.mp3>
>>
>> I started by creating a scale with a lot of 11-limit notes in it. I
>> like proper scales, so I had to wedge a lot of notes in to make it
>> flesh out all the little intervals properly. The resulting scale is
>> here:
>>
>> ! C:\Program Files (x86)\Scala22\mostly-elevens-scale.scl
>> !
>> Scale derived mostly from elevens.
>> 17
>> !
>> 33/32
>> 12/11
>> 25/22
>> 33/28
>> 11/9
>> 14/11
>> 4/3
>> 7/5
>> 16/11
>> 3/2
>> 11/7
>> 18/11
>> 56/33
>> 16/9
>> 11/6
>> 21/11
>> 2/1
>>
>> It looked like I should temper 540/539 and 441/440; I seem to remember
>> them being quite prevalent when I looked at different interval
>> combinations, though I blush to say I don't remember which ones they
>> equated. As such, I tempered to 58 EDO. Looking deeper and comparing
>> intervals in Scala showed that 9801/9800, 3025/3024, 43923/43904,
>> 5632/5625, and 42592/42525 were likely candidates. Looking into it, I
>> discovered that 72 EDO tempers 540/539, 441/440, and all but the last
>> two commas, so that's what I tempered it to, and that's what's in the
>> MP3. Here's the scale:
>>
>> ! C:\Program Files
>> (x86)\Scala22\mostly-elevens-scale-tempered-to-72-EDO.scl
>> !
>>
>> 17
>> !
>> 50.00000
>> 150.00000
>> 216.66700
>> 283.33300
>> 350.00000
>> 416.66700
>> 500.00000
>> 583.33300
>> 650.00000
>> 700.00000
>> 783.33300
>> 850.00000
>> 916.66700
>> 1000.00000
>> 1050.00000
>> 1116.66700
>> 1200.00000
>>
>> It's pretty accurate. The 25/22 is the worst, at only 4.6 cents flat,
>> which is about the best possible distinction my ears can make on very
>> close listening in ideal circumstances. Also, note that 72 EDO equates
>> 33/28 with 13/11, and makes (14/11)*(33/28) = (14/11)*(13/11) = 3/2.
>> The scale is only proper now, not strictly proper, but that's okay
>> with me.
>>
>> Note that 144 EDO gives the same exact result. I'd be interested in
>> any other ideas on how it could have been tempered.
>>
>> I was going to write something a little spooky or ambiguous, so I
>> settled on a chord progression like this:
>>
>> 1. 1/1 root, neutral chord
>> 2. 12/11 root, septimal minor chord
>> 3. 11/6 root, septimal minor chord
>> 4. 4/3 root, neutral chord
>>
>> I wrote a bass line and rendered it with a harsh, deep square wave --
>> but try as I might, I couldn't hear it as spooky. In fact, it seemed
>> pretty darned happy, like a walking bass line from a jazz combo. After
>> spending a half-hour trying to fix it, I gave up, changed the
>> instrument to acoustic bass, added the guitar chops, and started to
>> write a saxophone melody.
>>
>> I thought the melody should cover a lot of notes in the scale to
>> really call out its flavor, so I walk up and down the scale for the
>> refrain. It's lazy, though, so I made sure it felt a little sloppy.
>> Then I got little sillier in the verse -- I'm terrible at writing
>> solos, so I kept it short. If I had a real microtonal sax player, I'd
>> prefer to extend the solo, and have more solos with other instruments,
>> and all that good stuff. In a sense, what I have here is a proof of
>> concept of the piece more than what I'd like the piece to be.
>>
>> I thought about cutting out some of the repetition. The bass line
>> walks through a complete chorus, and then the chords go through a
>> complete chorus, and then the sax kicks in. But I decided I really
>> like getting the bass on its own AND the sound of the chords, so I
>> left them. Your mileage may vary.
>>
>> In the end, almost all of the notes get used at least a few times, and
>> the piece pretty successfully sounds non-twelve.
>>
>> I also thought that everyone except the sax players would have killed
>> me if I wrote them something this boring. When I tried making the bass
>> player play passing tones, though, it sounded pretty harsh, so I
>> limited them to the verse. I attribute that to a lack of subtlety in
>> my control of LilyPond / Timidity. Again, in the real world, I'd hope
>> for some improv there to make the tune better.
>>
>> Speaking of LilyPond, I'd love to have or find a "strum" function. I
>> have to write fairly complex expressions to get the sound I have here.
>> I started with a simple chord, but I didn't get the strum / chop sound
>> I do here, and I really wanted that, so I had to write a bunch of
>> stuff with ties and... well, it was a nuisance. If anyone cares how I
>> did it, I'll share the code.
>>
>> Your thoughts are always welcome, of course.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jake
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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