Topic: New Piece - Celestograph II

2 scales

Thread (16 messages)

From: idealordid (2008-11-24)
Subject: New Piece - Celestograph II

I've got a new electronic piece up.  

http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3

I used my Yamaha TG77 for the source material and then post-processed
it in Csound.  It's an almost orchestral electronic composition,
again, using the Wendy Carlos harmonic tuning.  The sounds sound a bit
like Vangelis' soundtrack to Blade Runner - although the overall
effect is more like Feldman's Coptic Light.  I think you'll be able to
hear the influences.  Basically it's a big chaconne.

The title comes from a photographic series by August Strindberg in
which he made photographs directly exposed to the night sky, without a
lens. He believed the lens warped the direct expression of the stars.

Jeff
http://jeffharrington.org

From: Kraig Grady (2008-11-24)
Subject: Re: [MMM] New Piece - Celestograph II

I think this is quite beautiful Jeff. Reminds me only of Stewart 
Dempsters work. Deeper than Vangelis and more sensuous than Feldman


/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:  
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',




idealordid wrote:
>
> I've got a new electronic piece up.
>
> http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3 
> <http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3>
>
> I used my Yamaha TG77 for the source material and then post-processed
> it in Csound. It's an almost orchestral electronic composition,
> again, using the Wendy Carlos harmonic tuning. The sounds sound a bit
> like Vangelis' soundtrack to Blade Runner - although the overall
> effect is more like Feldman's Coptic Light. I think you'll be able to
> hear the influences. Basically it's a big chaconne.
>
> The title comes from a photographic series by August Strindberg in
> which he made photographs directly exposed to the night sky, without a
> lens. He believed the lens warped the direct expression of the stars.
>
> Jeff
> http://jeffharrington.org <http://jeffharrington.org>
>
>

From: [email protected] (2008-11-24)
Subject: Re: [MMM] New Piece - Celestograph II

Jeff I am listening and loving this. Can someone tell me the difference between harmonic tuning and adaptive tuning? I assume they are not the same. I'm still trying to figure out my desired vertical relationship and horizontal relationship "scale" .  If that makes sense. 
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:41:48 
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [MMM] New Piece - Celestograph II


I think this is quite beautiful Jeff. Reminds me only of Stewart 
Dempsters work. Deeper than Vangelis and more sensuous than Feldman


/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:  
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',




idealordid wrote:
>
> I've got a new electronic piece up.
>
> http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3 
> <http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3>
>
> I used my Yamaha TG77 for the source material and then post-processed
> it in Csound. It's an almost orchestral electronic composition,
> again, using the Wendy Carlos harmonic tuning. The sounds sound a bit
> like Vangelis' soundtrack to Blade Runner - although the overall
> effect is more like Feldman's Coptic Light. I think you'll be able to
> hear the influences. Basically it's a big chaconne.
>
> The title comes from a photographic series by August Strindberg in
> which he made photographs directly exposed to the night sky, without a
> lens. He believed the lens warped the direct expression of the stars.
>
> Jeff
> http://jeffharrington.org <http://jeffharrington.org>
>
>  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: idealordid (2008-11-25)
Subject: Re: [MMM] New Piece - Celestograph II

Thanks Kraig and Chris!  I found the scale and started using it in 
Wendy Carlos' 1987 Computer Music Journal Article, "Tuning: At The
Crossroads." 

The white notes are Just and the black notes are tuned to the nearest
harmonic of C. I don't have the article here, and I've got the tuning
set into my synth, so I don't even have the data anymore.  

--- In [email protected], chrisvaisvil@... wrote:
>
> Jeff I am listening and loving this. Can someone tell me the
difference between harmonic tuning and adaptive tuning? I assume they
are not the same. I'm still trying to figure out my desired vertical
relationship and horizontal relationship "scale" .  If that makes sense. 
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>
> 
> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:41:48 
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [MMM] New Piece - Celestograph II
> 
> 
> I think this is quite beautiful Jeff. Reminds me only of Stewart 
> Dempsters work. Deeper than Vangelis and more sensuous than Feldman
> 
> 
> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> Mesotonal Music from:
> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:  
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
> 
> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
> 
> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idealordid wrote:
> >
> > I've got a new electronic piece up.
> >
> >
http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3

> >
<http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3>
> >
> > I used my Yamaha TG77 for the source material and then post-processed
> > it in Csound. It's an almost orchestral electronic composition,
> > again, using the Wendy Carlos harmonic tuning. The sounds sound a bit
> > like Vangelis' soundtrack to Blade Runner - although the overall
> > effect is more like Feldman's Coptic Light. I think you'll be able to
> > hear the influences. Basically it's a big chaconne.
> >
> > The title comes from a photographic series by August Strindberg in
> > which he made photographs directly exposed to the night sky, without a
> > lens. He believed the lens warped the direct expression of the stars.
> >
> > Jeff
> > http://jeffharrington.org <http://jeffharrington.org>
> >
> >  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

From: Aaron Krister Johnson (2008-11-25)
Subject: Re: New Piece - Celestograph II

Listening now...beautiful, as expected.

I'm listening in headphones, and the one thing I will say is the
constant panning is driving me a bit batty...but the material is
wonderfully rich and distinctively digital-FMey. Maybethe panning
wouldn't be such an issue for me in a room with nice speakers. Perhaps
I'll burn this to CD and bring it to a listening session tomorrow that
I'm having...

I'm curious what the CSound post-processing was...care to share?

-Aaron.


--- In [email protected], "idealordid" <jeff@...> wrote:
>
> I've got a new electronic piece up.  
> 
>
http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3
> 
> I used my Yamaha TG77 for the source material and then post-processed
> it in Csound.  It's an almost orchestral electronic composition,
> again, using the Wendy Carlos harmonic tuning.  The sounds sound a bit
> like Vangelis' soundtrack to Blade Runner - although the overall
> effect is more like Feldman's Coptic Light.  I think you'll be able to
> hear the influences.  Basically it's a big chaconne.
> 
> The title comes from a photographic series by August Strindberg in
> which he made photographs directly exposed to the night sky, without a
> lens. He believed the lens warped the direct expression of the stars.
> 
> Jeff
> http://jeffharrington.org
>

From: Dave Seidel (2008-11-25)
Subject: Re: [MMM] New Piece - Celestograph II

Great, Jeff.  I listened to the two of them together, and I like them 
both, but I think I like #2 better.  Makes me think of Stapleton's 
Starmaker.

- Dave

idealordid wrote:
> I've got a new electronic piece up.  
> 
> http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3
> 
> I used my Yamaha TG77 for the source material and then post-processed
> it in Csound.  It's an almost orchestral electronic composition,
> again, using the Wendy Carlos harmonic tuning.  The sounds sound a bit
> like Vangelis' soundtrack to Blade Runner - although the overall
> effect is more like Feldman's Coptic Light.  I think you'll be able to
> hear the influences.  Basically it's a big chaconne.
> 
> The title comes from a photographic series by August Strindberg in
> which he made photographs directly exposed to the night sky, without a
> lens. He believed the lens warped the direct expression of the stars.
> 
> Jeff
> http://jeffharrington.org
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

From: Kraig Grady (2008-11-26)
Subject: Re: [MMM] New Piece - Celestograph II

i remember in his "Sirius". The dog could not stand 12 ET although he 
found 53 Et bearable


/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:  
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',




Dave Seidel wrote:
>
> Great, Jeff. I listened to the two of them together, and I like them
> both, but I think I like #2 better. Makes me think of Stapleton's
> Starmaker.
>
> - Dave
>
> idealordid wrote:
> > I've got a new electronic piece up.
> >
> > 
> http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3 
> <http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3>
> >
> > I used my Yamaha TG77 for the source material and then post-processed
> > it in Csound. It's an almost orchestral electronic composition,
> > again, using the Wendy Carlos harmonic tuning. The sounds sound a bit
> > like Vangelis' soundtrack to Blade Runner - although the overall
> > effect is more like Feldman's Coptic Light. I think you'll be able to
> > hear the influences. Basically it's a big chaconne.
> >
> > The title comes from a photographic series by August Strindberg in
> > which he made photographs directly exposed to the night sky, without a
> > lens. He believed the lens warped the direct expression of the stars.
> >
> > Jeff
> > http://jeffharrington.org <http://jeffharrington.org>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

From: Prent Rodgers (2008-11-26)
Subject: Re: New Piece - Celestograph II

Jeff,
I loved it too. The high frequencies had a real bite to them that I 
felt a powerful connection to. 

I especially liked the ending, when the texture diminished. Perhaps if 
you had some of that scarce-ness in the middle might have broken up 
the density some. 

I didn't notice the panning that others did. I love panning. I'll have 
to listen on headphones to get the full measure. I listened only on my 
home stereo and then in the car. 

I like the idea of the keyboard setup you describe, of white notes vs. 
the black high harmonics. Easy to know when and where to add a bit of 
spice to the mix. Just rely on the black notes. 

Prent Rodgers

--- In [email protected], "idealordid" <jeff@...> wrote:
>
> I've got a new electronic piece up.  
> 
> http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-
Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3
> 

> Jeff
> http://jeffharrington.org
>

From: Carlo Serafini (2008-11-26)
Subject: Re: [MMM] New Piece - Celestograph II

the article 'Tuning, at the Crossroads' is included with the 'Beauty in the Beast' Enhanced-CD 
by Wendy Carlos.

--- In [email protected], "idealordid" <jeff@...> wrote:
>
> I found the scale and started using it in 
> Wendy Carlos' 1987 Computer Music Journal Article, "Tuning: At The
> Crossroads." 
> 
> The white notes are Just and the black notes are tuned to the nearest
> harmonic of C. I don't have the article here, and I've got the tuning
> set into my synth, so I don't even have the data anymore.  
> 
>

From: Carlo Serafini (2008-11-26)
Subject: Re: [MMM] New Piece - Celestograph II

Jeff
I forgot to say this piece is very beautiful. thanks for sharing


--- In [email protected], "Carlo Serafini" <carlo@...> wrote:
>
> the article 'Tuning, at the Crossroads' is included with the 'Beauty in the Beast' Enhanced-
CD 
> by Wendy Carlos.
>

From: Carl Lumma (2008-11-26)
Subject: Re: [MMM] New Piece - Celestograph II

At 05:38 AM 11/25/2008, you wrote:
>Thanks Kraig and Chris!  I found the scale and started using it in 
>Wendy Carlos' 1987 Computer Music Journal Article, "Tuning: At The
>Crossroads." 

I liked it too -- VERY intense.

The 'Carlos harmonic' tuning is one of the most popular tunings
that I've seen built into synths.  It is a 12-tone subset of harmonics
16-32 (omits 23, 25, 29, and 31).  Quite a straightforward scale and
a very good one.

A related scale is this one, which basically has 25 instead of 27:

! 12_o10-plus21,25.scl
!
 Harmonic series 10-20, plus 21/20 and 25/20.
 12
!
 21/20
 11/10
 6/5
 5/4
 13/10
 7/5
 3/2
 8/5
 17/10
 9/5
 19/10
 2/1
!
! Carl Lumma, 1997.

Those are the two most obvious 12-tone scales from a single
harmonic series.  But one can take two different series segments
and interleave them to get 12 tones.  This gives two different
'keys' to modulate between.  Two segments of harmonics 8-16 rooted
a 3/2 apart is the most popular try here (promoted for instance
by David Canright).

! 12_o8x[13].scl
!
 Two harmonic series segments (cap 16) rooted a 3:2 apart.
 12
!
 13/12
 9/8
 7/6
 5/4
 4/3
 11/8
 3/2
 13/8
 5/3
 7/4
 15/8
 2/1
!
! Carl Lumma, after David Canright.

The 'keys' here are 1/1 and 4/3.  The series on 4/3 is missing
an 11 identity, since otherwise it collides with 15/8.

But probably the most efficient twin-series 12-tone scale I've
ever seen is due to George Secor:

! 12_o8+u8.scl
!
 16 harmonics on 1/1 and 16 subharmonics on 15/8.
 12
!
 15/14
 9/8
 15/13
 5/4
 15/11
 11/8
 3/2
 13/8
 5/3
 7/4
 15/8
 2/1
!
! George Secor, TL 60761 (2005.09.27).

That gives you 16 harmonics and 16 subharmonics, complete.  Cool!

These annoying blocks of text are valid Scala files by the way.
Just copy and paste them into a text file and save with a ".scl"
extension and away you go with any compatible synth!

The notation I'm using for the filenames, e.g. "12_o8+u8.scl",
is based on a notation suggested by Magnus Jonsson a few years
back:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/60472

Here are some 12-note scales he found:

http://magnus.smartelectronix.com/scales/12/

-Carl

From: Carlo Serafini (2008-11-26)
Subject: Re: New Piece - Celestograph II

btw this one is really beautiful!
thanks for sharing
:-)

--- In [email protected], "idealordid" <jeff@...> wrote:
>
> I've got a new electronic piece up.  
> 
> http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-
Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3
>

From: idealordid (2008-11-26)
Subject: Re: New Piece - Celestograph II

Hey Aaron, thanks for the listen.  I might have overdone the panning,
but I got new monitors a couple of years ago and have been mastering
with them instead of headphones.  The Csound orc I'm using is the same
one I've used for a lot of piece.  It's got a phasing/flanging
instrument and a reverb instrument.  

http://parnasse.com/espace.zip

I spend more time tweaking the score settings to come up with any new
orcs! Haha...  

--- In [email protected], "Aaron Krister Johnson"
<aaron@...> wrote:
>
> Listening now...beautiful, as expected.
> 
> I'm listening in headphones, and the one thing I will say is the
> constant panning is driving me a bit batty...but the material is
> wonderfully rich and distinctively digital-FMey. Maybethe panning
> wouldn't be such an issue for me in a room with nice speakers. Perhaps
> I'll burn this to CD and bring it to a listening session tomorrow that
> I'm having...
> 
> I'm curious what the CSound post-processing was...care to share?
> 
> -Aaron.
> 
> 
> --- In [email protected], "idealordid" <jeff@> wrote:
> >
> > I've got a new electronic piece up.  
> > 
> >
>
http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3
> > 
> > I used my Yamaha TG77 for the source material and then post-processed
> > it in Csound.  It's an almost orchestral electronic composition,
> > again, using the Wendy Carlos harmonic tuning.  The sounds sound a bit
> > like Vangelis' soundtrack to Blade Runner - although the overall
> > effect is more like Feldman's Coptic Light.  I think you'll be able to
> > hear the influences.  Basically it's a big chaconne.
> > 
> > The title comes from a photographic series by August Strindberg in
> > which he made photographs directly exposed to the night sky, without a
> > lens. He believed the lens warped the direct expression of the stars.
> > 
> > Jeff
> > http://jeffharrington.org
> >
>

From: idealordid (2008-11-26)
Subject: Re: New Piece - Celestograph II

Thanks Prent!  I tried having more holes in the middle.  Rewrote the
score in Sibelius over and over but it would always lose momentum.  I
have to get batter at these electronic forms.  I think the next few
pieces will become even more orchestral and I'll try and have some big
chords so that I can close down the stream without losing the
movement.  That was my plan on this piece, but I ended up liking how
this one worked enough to put it out.  

--- In [email protected], "Prent Rodgers"
<prentrodgers@...> wrote:
>
> Jeff,
> I loved it too. The high frequencies had a real bite to them that I 
> felt a powerful connection to. 
> 
> I especially liked the ending, when the texture diminished. Perhaps if 
> you had some of that scarce-ness in the middle might have broken up 
> the density some. 
> 
> I didn't notice the panning that others did. I love panning. I'll have 
> to listen on headphones to get the full measure. I listened only on my 
> home stereo and then in the car. 
> 
> I like the idea of the keyboard setup you describe, of white notes vs. 
> the black high harmonics. Easy to know when and where to add a bit of 
> spice to the mix. Just rely on the black notes. 
> 
> Prent Rodgers
> 
> --- In [email protected], "idealordid" <jeff@> wrote:
> >
> > I've got a new electronic piece up.  
> > 
> > http://www.harrington.lunarpages.com/mp3/celestographs/Jeff-
> Harrington_Celestograph_II.mp3
> > 
> 
> > Jeff
> > http://jeffharrington.org
> >
>

From: idealordid (2008-11-26)
Subject: Re: [MMM] New Piece - Celestograph II

Wow thanks, Carl.  I've been looking at some ways to modulate beyond
the obvious.  I always like lots of tones to be in the same two scales
I'm moving towards; that old Schubert thing.  I can add these to my
TG77 scale collection.  

I'd appreciate any other ideas about how to exploit these 12 key
tunings.  I realized one of the reasons I was never getting any more
19ET music written was because once I moved onto another piece, my
fingers would forget the chords, etc. that I need to get inspired to
compose.  

Jeff
http://jeffharrington.org

--- In [email protected], Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:
>
> At 05:38 AM 11/25/2008, you wrote:
> >Thanks Kraig and Chris!  I found the scale and started using it in 
> >Wendy Carlos' 1987 Computer Music Journal Article, "Tuning: At The
> >Crossroads." 
> 
> I liked it too -- VERY intense.
> 
> The 'Carlos harmonic' tuning is one of the most popular tunings
> that I've seen built into synths.  It is a 12-tone subset of harmonics
> 16-32 (omits 23, 25, 29, and 31).  Quite a straightforward scale and
> a very good one.
> 
> A related scale is this one, which basically has 25 instead of 27:
> 
> ! 12_o10-plus21,25.scl
> !
>  Harmonic series 10-20, plus 21/20 and 25/20.
>  12
> !
>  21/20
>  11/10
>  6/5
>  5/4
>  13/10
>  7/5
>  3/2
>  8/5
>  17/10
>  9/5
>  19/10
>  2/1
> !
> ! Carl Lumma, 1997.
> 
> Those are the two most obvious 12-tone scales from a single
> harmonic series.  But one can take two different series segments
> and interleave them to get 12 tones.  This gives two different
> 'keys' to modulate between.  Two segments of harmonics 8-16 rooted
> a 3/2 apart is the most popular try here (promoted for instance
> by David Canright).
> 
> ! 12_o8x[13].scl
> !
>  Two harmonic series segments (cap 16) rooted a 3:2 apart.
>  12
> !
>  13/12
>  9/8
>  7/6
>  5/4
>  4/3
>  11/8
>  3/2
>  13/8
>  5/3
>  7/4
>  15/8
>  2/1
> !
> ! Carl Lumma, after David Canright.
> 
> The 'keys' here are 1/1 and 4/3.  The series on 4/3 is missing
> an 11 identity, since otherwise it collides with 15/8.
> 
> But probably the most efficient twin-series 12-tone scale I've
> ever seen is due to George Secor:
> 
> ! 12_o8+u8.scl
> !
>  16 harmonics on 1/1 and 16 subharmonics on 15/8.
>  12
> !
>  15/14
>  9/8
>  15/13
>  5/4
>  15/11
>  11/8
>  3/2
>  13/8
>  5/3
>  7/4
>  15/8
>  2/1
> !
> ! George Secor, TL 60761 (2005.09.27).
> 
> That gives you 16 harmonics and 16 subharmonics, complete.  Cool!
> 
> These annoying blocks of text are valid Scala files by the way.
> Just copy and paste them into a text file and save with a ".scl"
> extension and away you go with any compatible synth!
> 
> The notation I'm using for the filenames, e.g. "12_o8+u8.scl",
> is based on a notation suggested by Magnus Jonsson a few years
> back:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/60472
> 
> Here are some 12-note scales he found:
> 
> http://magnus.smartelectronix.com/scales/12/
> 
> -Carl
>

From: Carl Lumma (2008-11-26)
Subject: Re: [MMM] New Piece - Celestograph II

At 07:19 AM 11/26/2008, you wrote:
>Wow thanks, Carl.  I've been looking at some ways to modulate beyond
>the obvious.  I always like lots of tones to be in the same two scales
>I'm moving towards; that old Schubert thing.  I can add these to my
>TG77 scale collection.  
>
>I'd appreciate any other ideas about how to exploit these 12 key
>tunings.  I realized one of the reasons I was never getting any more
>19ET music written was because once I moved onto another piece, my
>fingers would forget the chords, etc. that I need to get inspired to
>compose.  
>
>Jeff
>http://jeffharrington.org

My approach is to start by improvising in them with a MIDI keyboard,
and then, if desired, moving on to through-composing.  I suspect
that's what you're doing.  Unfortunately there's no recipe for
inspiration.  Other than to get dumped that is.  :)

-Carl